Like how many have you, this again, thinking about dating ourselves, but I had a colleague at this financial company I worked at and he had been there for many years before me. And I came in, I was a, we were a contract. I was working for CSC at the time and CSC took over all the IT for this company, Heller Financial. And then we got acquired all this stuff. And I remember Mike, my colleague, Mark said, I've sat at the same desk for 10 years and I've worked for four different companies, right? You know, and so that is real. Yeah. And so I will tell you this is, I've had, and the reason I know this, and there's people, everybody wants to do this right. So they're getting there and I'm not saying like, this is this, this funny, dirty thing where these people are never going to go. But I don't think it's too much of an outlier of that journey of that you're going to have these teams are called the platform team that's still at the end of the day. These are infrastructure admins, which can have great ideas. And again, I'm a multi-decade CSC admin dude, right? Like I will never talk shit about CSC admins or infrastructure people. But we only know what we know and we don't know what we don't know. So, so if you were to going to continue to take that sort of same group and continue to change what you're expecting out of them without actually enabling that to happen, you're going to end up with things that rhyme with everything that came before because you're not going to have folks that are as architect focused because you're still talking about people to think about life in an operations way. I don't know the answer to this listeners. If you're in a situation like this, if what you're seeing happening on that, hit us up on the Elon Musk hobby site, you know, and love to hear what you have to say. Can we talk about backstage a little bit? Because I want to know more about it. And I feel like you know a lot more than I do. So, I think it's cool. I remember it sort of, I was hearing sort of like the, to me it seems like one of those things that I want to say was like a couple of years ago sort of would hear about it. I will admit, I kind of put it off to the side the way that I do. I love Spotify, but it's interesting that like there's Spotify model that Spotify doesn't even follow. So you always wonder

about how much of this

is something that we take as inspiration and go and how much is a model. And I kind of heard this and then it feel like in the last year or so, all of a sudden it's like backstage all the time, like this is a thing. And so I'd love to kind of get a feel for like what it's about from what you see and then what you really see the use case for it. Like what are people actually doing? Like, where are we in the hype cycle? If you will, maybe not the hype cycle. That's a gartner thing. It's the crossing the chasm, right? Like, where are we with something like that?