Intro

In this conversation…

Two pre-menopausal females break down the replacement theory panic disguised as Reasonable! Political! Concern! and why it’s completely unnecessary and counterproductive to entertain the pronatalist conversation on their terms: that is, litigating the validity of having (or not having) children. It is not, and has never been, about the kids.

Bonus Reading

The Dawn of Everything by David Graeber and David Wengrow, which really puts the whole “the traditional, natural order is the nuclear family with the man at the helm” into historical context

Sisters in Hate by Seyward Darby, an absolute banger about the girlbosses of white nationalism

“White Noise,” a documentary about Richard Spencer, Lauren Southern, and Mike Cernovich’s rise to viral fame ha ha ha everything’s fine!

“The Housewives of White Supremacy” by Annie Kelly, a piece that traces the current anti-feminist resurgence to economic precarity and a mythic past in which everyone had sugar daddies and three-bedroom starter homes

“The Cultural Politics Behind JD Vance’s Obsession with ‘Cat Ladies’” by Jacob Rosenberg for Mother Jones, an interview with Dr. Melinda Cooper about how “the legalization of same-sex marriage has shifted the line of deviance from sexuality to reproductivity”

“Pro-Natalism” on In Bed with the Right, featuring some of the commentary we discussed from feminist writer Moira Donegan

“Warren Hern, America’s Abortion Doctor,” a New Yorker interview conducted by Jia Tolentino with the only octogenarian doctor on the planet that we will personally beg not to retire

“Roe Was Never Enough Anyway,” a critique of the landmark abortion case in Boston Review by Rachel Rebouché, in which she casually points out that Roe NEVER ACTUALLY GUARANTEED ABORTION ACCESS TO BEGIN WITH HAHA K COOL

“What the ‘Mississippi Appendectomy’ Says About the Regard of the State Towards the Agency of Black Women’s Bodies,” a historical analysis that, fair warning, will radically change your relationship to our nation’s history, and to the practice of colonialism writ large, if you aren’t familiar with this topic

“Israel Gave Birth Control to Ethiopian Jews Without Their Consent,” ha ha ha ha ha here we go again same story different colonial project cool cool cool no biggie

…and a funny little tiktok to reward you for reading so much depressing shit<3

Time Stamps

1:00 Katie sets the scene for the conversation, and makes a startling admission in the meantime

5:00 enter, stage left: the interview where JD Vance acknowledged his wife’s skin color in the most American Psycho way possible

8:00 Caro takes a moment to shit all over Megyn Kelly

10:00 let’s talk about how *~meaningful*~ it is to have kids, no wait we mean economically important, no wait we mean personally meaningful, NO WAIT —

16:00 if you’re wondering whether republicans give a single shit about babies/families/women, take a gander at how they engage with labor unions

21:00 the sneaky little fact that no one discusses in the birth rate conversation

25:00 let’s talk about how tenuous the connections are between marriage, child welfare, and child stability

32:00 who decides what is “natural” and “human” and what is not?

35:30 the first cracks in the pronatalism argument become evident

37:00 let’s discuss the Quiverfull movement!!!

48:00 exploring the cultural roots and propaganda campaigns that motivate women to lean into the pronatalist movement

59:30 how the republican party harnesses the fuck out of nostalgia to make us perceive their DEEPLY IMPRACTICAL goals as highly practical and maybe even inevitable

1:05:00 the part where we realize this episode is literally the sequel to agriculture wars

1:08:00 let’s address the elephant in the room, the elephant in question being *checks notes* the virtual elimination of teen pregnancies being somehow bad

1:10:00 insert obligatory conservative trans/gender panic here

1:17:00 is the birth rate panic actually a marxist panic in disguise????

1:21:00 Caro offers a rare optimistic call to arms (cherish it when it happens folks)

1:26:00 is anyone else just extremely bored by the ongoing effort to solve the effects of capitalism with more capitalism?

1:30:00 Katie drops the thought banger of the fucking century

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