Avoiding Customer Conversations

Most customer experience goals are meaningless. In this episode, Bob Furniss and Amas Tenumah dismantle the way contact centers set annual CX metrics and explain why leaders keep optimizing numbers that customers neither notice nor value.

Using insights from a John Goodman article on CX goal-setting, the conversation exposes the disconnect between executives, customers, and frontline teams—and why automation, deflection, and "respectable" percentage improvements often make service worse, not better.

This episode is about shifting from internally convenient metrics to customer-impactful outcomes.

• Why CX goals are often chosen because they sound reasonable, not because they solve customer problems

• How executives chase a single "magic number" instead of understanding service complexity

• The fundamental incentive gap between customers and senior leadership

• Why customers and frontline agents are aligned—but executives aren't

• How automation and bots optimize company metrics while frustrating customers

• Where AI actually helps: analyzing volume, root causes, and systemic friction

• Why average metrics (ASA, AHT) distort reality and reward the wrong behavior

• How poor goal-setting punishes leaders who successfully automate the "easy" work

• The risk of letting someone else define your goals if you don't take control

• A real-world example of automation done right—and how bad metrics mislabel it as failure

• Vanity metrics don't fix customer experience

• Deflection and containment may look good internally while actively harming trust

• CX leaders must own the narrative or be trapped chasing numbers they don't believe in

• AI should surface customer pain, not just reduce contact volume

• Goals should reflect customer outcomes, not executive convenience

• John Goodman's article on CX goal-setting (referenced in discussion)

• HOLD: The Suffering Economy of Customer Service by Amas Tenumah

  • Available on Amazon

  • Signed copies at waitingforservice.com

• Contact center and CX leaders setting 2026 goals

• Executives relying on NPS, ASA, AHT, or deflection as proxies for success

• Practitioners tired of fixing the wrong problems

• Anyone responsible for explaining service performance to leadership