The Importance of Making Distinctions

Ep. 68 (Part 2 of 3) | Corey deVos is the heart and center of Integral Life, the organization that revolves around the work of Ken Wilber. Corey became passionate about Integral Theory at the age of 19, and in this lively conversation, he is clearly every bit as passionate about the actuality and the promise of Integral today. Here, Corey gives a terrifically lucid explanation of what the term Integral encompasses: a stage of psychological development, a description of Ken Wilber’s life’s work, and a comprehensive map that comes alive for people, guiding their way and making sense out of enormously complex issues. Corey also describes Integral as a gateway between two massive phases in human history—the “adolescent” phase of collective development now starting to fall behind us and an integrated phase quite possibly ahead.

Corey infuses the complex topics under discussion—the Integral metatheory, social issues that never seem to get resolved, human evolution itself—with optimism and enthusiasm, clarity and light, a testament to his own embodiment of Integral consciousness. At Integral Life, Corey co-hosts The Ken Show (with Ken Wilber), applies Integral to social issues like racism and justice in his podcast series, and excels at finding creative ways of translating the complexities of Integral Theory into easy-to-understand nuggets of information. This conversation is a brilliant, beautiful illumination of the Integral vision, covering how Integral has evolved and describing what it can do for our future. Recorded on November 10, 2022.

“The more we can make room for each other’s perspective…that’s how you go about solving the kind of political tribalization and polarization that is so prominent today.”

(For Apple Podcast users, click here to view the complete show notes on the episode page.)

Topics & Time Stamps – Part 2

• In appreciation of Ken Wilber’s kindness and generosity (00:48)
• The Integral vision, the concept of “vision-logic,” and the geometry of consciousness (02:23)
• Corey’s creativity using mainstream movie clips to communicate the complexity of each Integral stage of development in a nutshell (05:18)
• How Corey applies Integral to the major social issues of our time (09:21)
• The Integral Justice Warrior series, co-hosted by Mark Fischler and Corey deVos (10:38)
• The Ken Show with Ken Wilber and Corey deVos (13:18)
• The Integral map’s four quadrants explained (14:47)
• The Integral heart is an empathetic heart (18:14) 
• The 8 zones of racism: can we create a frame in which both a “woke” person and a traditional person can find themselves? (20:28)
• How can we talk about systemic racism (or any other issue) from different developmental perspectives and find common ground? (23:22)
• Stumbling our way towards Integral and finding out that the territory is actually real (26:21)
• The evolution of Integral, symbol of wholeness (32:47)
• How Corey came to be knocking on Ken’s door and his intention to create a way for people to become transformed by Integral yet not feel alone in this (34:41)

Resources & References – Part 2

• John Dupuy, Integral Recovery: A Revolutionary Approach to the Treatment of Alcoholism and Addiction*
• Ken Wilber, The Spectrum of Consciousness*
• Corey’s art website, Vision Logix Woodworking
• Ken Wilber, The Integral Vision*
• The Integral Justice Warrior series, co-hosted by Mark Fischler and Corey deVos
• The Ken Show: Putting the “Art” in Artificial Intelligence
• The Ken Show: Wicked Problems, Gun Violence
• Jeff Salzman, host of The Daily Evolver podcast
• Corey deVos, Executive Producer at IntegralLife.com
• Corey deVos’ intro to Integral video: Holons: The Building Blocks of the Universe (YouTube)
• Build Your Integral Life, free Integral Life course for beginners

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

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Corey deVos is the Executive Producer of Integral Life, an online media platform that focuses on the application of Integral Theory to personal and social transformation. Integral Theory is a comprehensive framework that seeks to integrate multiple perspectives, including the subjective, objective, inter-subjective, and inter-objective dimensions of human experience.

Corey deVos is also a writer, woodworker, musician, and teacher, who has been involved in the integral community for many years. He is a frequent host and guest on Integral Life’s podcast, where he engages in deep conversations with leading thinkers, artists, and practitioners in the integral world. He is known for his ability to articulate complex ideas in a clear and accessible manner, and for his commitment to fostering a more inclusive and integrated worldview. Corey is a devoted father and husband, and lives with his family in Longmont, Colorado.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell