Dividing the World into Color-Coded Teams in Politics

Jonathan writes a column for The Guardian, hosts their “Politics Weekly America” podcast, and is the co-host of the “Unholy” podcast with Israeli journalist Yonit Levi. He’s also the author of The Escape Artist: The Man Who Broke Out of Auschwitz to Warn the World, along with several thrillers under the pseudonym Sam Bourne.

For two clips of our convo — on “white supremacy” shifting to “Jewish supremacy,” and a character study of Keir Starmer — pop over to our YouTube page. Other topics: Jonathan covering US politics since the 1992 election; how Hamas didn't expect the IDF failures on 10/7; the PR battle over Gaza; Israel in a “desperately bad place”; Hamas wanting the deaths of civilians on both sides; disturbing quotes from the settler movement; the impossibility of a two-state solution; the crude worldview of the woke left; how progressives have often been “on the wrong side of history” (e.g. eugenics); Jeremy Corbyn and anti-Semitism; his meeting with Hamas and Hezbollah; the hooked-nose mural in East London Corbyn defended; Corbyn insidiously trashing a piece by Jonathan; the abuse hurled at Margaret Hodge as a child of Holocaust survivors; inherited trauma; Keir Starmer’s stand against the anti-Semitism in his party; his “Eliot Ness” persona as a chief prosecutor; the likelihood of him being the next PM; Tony Blair’s unflattering portrayal in The Crown; Brexit and migrants; the Rwanda Plan; how Biden is fatally weak on immigration; Iowa evangelicals deifying Trump; and Trump as the favorite for winning in the fall.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Justin Brierley on his book The Surprising Rebirth of Belief of God, Nate Silver on the 2024 race, Christian Wiman on resisting despair as a Christian, Jeffrey Rosen on the pursuit of happiness, George Will on Trump and conservatism, and Abigail Shrier on why the cult of therapy harms children. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other pod comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.