I Don't Do These Things, I Wasn't Responsible.

In the beginning, it was so called emigration. You know, jews were forced, scared, of course. Well, forced emigration is a different stage. So early on, it's still forced. But he facilitated emigration and worked with zionists. And then in 19 forty one, you know, 19 39, really things begin. He knows he's deporting people to death camps, basically. There's no doubt he didn't deny knowing that he knew what he was doing when he put people on trains. For ikman, it just means that it was aided and abetted murder, that he wasn't the actual murderer.