Hey, everybody. We're sharing something special today from our pals over at the Say More podcast, where in a special series, Boston Globe columnist Shirley Leung is opening up the conversation about stress and burnout to help listeners feel less alone and inspired to get help. She connects with experts like Krista Tippett and Emily Nagoski, who use medical science, social science, and philosophy to answer deep questions about how stress works on our bodies and our minds so we can work better and live better.

In this episode that we're sharing with you, computer scientist and best selling author Cal Newport says we've been thinking about productivity all wrong. We are big fans of Cal Newport. Shirley talks to Cal about the ways the modern office worker is primed for professional burnout, how hybrid work is just making it worse, and what we can do about it.

He's not a Luddite by any stretch, but he says that we should quit social media and leave our phones behind whenever possible. Okay, here comes the preview. You can listen to Say More here: https://link.chtbl.com/saymore?sid=designbetter