How the speech-conduct distinction determines the case outcome

In this episode, Stephanie Barclay of the Georgetown University Law Center and Erwin Chemerinsky of the UC Berkeley School of Law join to recap the oral arguments from Chiles v. Salazar and discuss whether Colorado’s ban on conversion therapy violates the First Amendment. Jeffrey Rosen, president and CEO of the National Constitution Center, moderates.  

Resources 

• United States v. Skrmetti (2025) 
• Mahmoud v. Taylor (2025) 
• NIFLA v. Becerra (2018) 
• Tarasoff v. Regents of the University of California (Cal. 1976) 
• Stephanie Barclay et al., “Brief amici curiae of First Amendment Scholars,” Chiles v. Salazar (6/13/2025) 
• Erwin Chemerinsky et al., “Brief amici curiae of Constitutional Law Scholars,” Chiles v. Salazar (8/26/2025) 
• Cass Report (2024) 

In our new podcast, Pursuit: The Founders’ Guide to Happiness, Jeffrey Rosen explores the founders’ lives with the historians who know them best. Plus, filmmaker Ken Burns shares his daily practice of self-reflection. 

Listen to episodes of Pursuit on ⁠⁠Apple Podcast⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠. 

Stay Connected and Learn More

• Questions or comments about the show? Email us at ⁠⁠⁠podcast@constitutioncenter.org⁠⁠⁠
• ⁠⁠⁠Continue the conversation by following us on social media @ConstitutionCtr ⁠⁠⁠
• Explore the⁠⁠ ⁠America at 250 Civic Toolkit⁠⁠⁠
• ⁠⁠⁠Sign up⁠⁠⁠ to receive Constitution Weekly, our email roundup of constitutional news and debate
• Follow, rate, and review wherever you listen
• Join us for an upcoming⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠live program⁠⁠⁠ or watch recordings on⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠
• Support our important work: 

⁠⁠⁠Donate⁠⁠