The culture of work rests almost squarely on the other side of that pendulum, right, is the artificial harmony side. If there's no minor angst or frustration or disagreement, there's a really good chance that not everything is being said because any two human beings sitting down to figure things out are going to experience some frustration. And so what we have to do is as leaders, we have to constantly mine for conflict and get into the habit of doing it.