Intro

The international war reporter John Lechner is a brave man. For his new book Death Is Our Business: Russian Mercenaries and the New Era of Private Warfare, he spent time in both Russia and the Central African Republic researching the Russian mercenary Wagner Group founded by Yevgeny Prigozhin. In our conversation, he details Prigozhin's rise, his rebellion against Putin, and his eventual death. Lechner argues that mercenary groups like Wagner are generally no more or less bloodthirsty than the governments that employ them. We also talked about the broader global trend of outsourcing warfare, from Russian mercenaries to U.S. contractors like Blackwater, and how this approach reduces political costs for governments engaging in military interventions.

Here are the 5 KEEN ON AMERICA takeaways from the Lechner interview:

* Wagner Group represents a broader trend of privatized warfare, following in the footsteps of Western contractors like Blackwater but expanding into offensive operations.

* Yevgeny Prigozhin's personal ambition and desire to overcome his status within Putin's inner circle drove Wagner's expansion globally.

* Mercenary groups like Wagner typically mirror the human rights practices of the governments that hire them, often exacerbating existing abuses rather than introducing new ones.

* Prigozhin's rebellion against Putin stemmed from his narcissism and fear of losing political leverage when the Ministry of Defense attempted to absorb Wagner's fighters.

* The outsourcing of warfare (through mercenaries, proxies, or technology) allows governments to pursue interventionist policies with reduced political costs, as contractor deaths don't receive the same public scrutiny as military casualties.

John Lechner graduated from the Master of Science in Foreign Service (MSFS) Program at Georgetown University’s School of Foreign Service. At Georgetown, John focused on security issues in Central Africa and the Sahel; Turkey; Russia, and the former Soviet Union. He is an expert on Russia’s growing influence in Africa. He speaks fluent Russian; advanced French, Turkish, and Georgian; and conversational Bosnian-Croatian-Serbian (BCS), Chechen, German, and Sango (the lingua franca of the Central African Republic). After working in finance for several years, John decided to leverage his language skills and significant experience living abroad—especially in Russia and Europe—for a career in international affairs. After arriving in Washington DC, he took an internship with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD), analyzing and publishing articles on Turkish domestic politics, security, and foreign relations. While attending Georgetown he has continued to work as a freelance journalist, covering issues related to language, history, culture, and politics in eastern Ukraine, Moldova, Turkey, the Sahel, and the Central African Republic. He is an expert on the history, languages, and politics of Central Africa, Turkey, and the former Soviet Union. You can find his articles published in Foreign Policy, War on the Rocks, Kyiv Post, The Diplomat, Africa is a Country, African Arguments, The National Interest, and Defense One, among others.

Named as one of the "100 most connected men" by GQ magazine, Andrew Keen is amongst the world's best known broadcasters and commentators. In addition to presenting the daily KEEN ON show, he is the host of the long-running How To Fix Democracy interview series. He is also the author of four prescient books about digital technology: CULT OF THE AMATEUR, DIGITAL VERTIGO, THE INTERNET IS NOT THE ANSWER and HOW TO FIX THE FUTURE. Andrew lives in San Francisco, is married to Cassandra Knight, Google's VP of Litigation & Discovery, and has two grown children.

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