David: I was saying to Trung in private as well that for someone like me, I can listen to audiobooks. If someone's reading a book to me, it's difficult for me to take it in. And this is why I'm also going to miss the Jackson here, because one thing I wanted to do as a fan of NIA is like, dude, I want to get on their podcast and I want to ask them how they think about their work.

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