The Argument for a Strong Welfare State in Europe

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A few articles have claimed that support for generous welfare state policies go down in various european countries when there's high levels of immigration. The argument is treated like a conservative argument even by political scientists who tend to be on the left, says David Frum. "That's sort of a very strong rejection of this line of research from the left," he adds.

Heather McGhee is an author and policy advocate with a focus on reducing inequality. She is Board Chair for the organization Color Of Change and a former CEO of the think tank Demos. McGhee is the author of The Sum of Us: What Racism Costs Everyone and How We Can Prosper Together .

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Heather McGhee discuss why progress for one ethnic group need not come at the expense of another; how racial animus has been used in the past to divide Americans who share fundamental interests; and whether the recent focus on "race-sensitive" public threatens to reignite zero-sum competition between different racial groups.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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