Rufus Grisco: It's amazing how on almost every major issue you think of, there is a surface level kind of binary distortion of the argument. He says we can build arguments together in neutral spaces and I have to think in the best moments of our political system, when you have bipartisanship, something like that happens. Rufus: Well, Buster, though it's slightly discouraging to learn that I will never change my wife's mind and our arguments will last forever. Use the promo code podcast for 10% off the cost of a subscription.

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