Navigating Love: Overcoming Competition for Deeper Connection

Welcome to episode 90 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino are joined by Nho Tran, a nun in the Plum Village tradition for 17 years now continuing her spiritual journey as a layperson. 

Together, they explore the profound importance of spiritual friendship in the Buddhist tradition, while Brother Phap Huu and Nho reflect on the personal journey of their decades-long friendship. They discuss the teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh on the centrality of community and togetherness in cultivating joy, stability, and liberation; the challenges and growth experienced through friendship; and the importance of deep listening and being present for one another, which allows for vulnerability, honesty, and the freedom to be one’s authentic self. 

Bio

Nho Tran is a scholar, facilitator, and former Buddhist nun in the Plum Village tradition of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh. She spent many years living and practicing in monastic communities across Asia, Europe, and North America, where she cultivated a deep commitment to interbeing, cultural resilience, and the art of mindful living.

Nho’s work sits at the intersection of conflict transformation, ethics, and systems thinking. Drawing on her monastic formation and experience across diverse sectors, she supports individuals and communities in navigating difficult conversations, fostering cultural change, and reimagining leadership grounded in compassion and collective wisdom.

She holds a joint degree in Cognitive Neuroscience and Religion from the University of Southern California, a Master of Divinity from Harvard Divinity School, and an MA from Harvard University. She is currently a PhD candidate at Harvard’s Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, where her research explores the intersections of religion, ethics, governance, and Vietnamese Buddhist history.

Nho teaches negotiation, ethics, and conflict resolution at Harvard, and continues to serve as a bridge between contemplative practice and social transformation.

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Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/  

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

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List of resources

Live show: The Way Out Is In podcast with special guest Ocean Vuong plumvillage.uk/livepodcast

Ocean Vuong
https://www.oceanvuong.com/

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing  

Ānanda 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80nanda

Pali Canon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pali_Canon 

The Three Marks of Existence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_marks_of_existence

The Miracle of Mindfulness 
https://plumvillage.shop/products/books/personal-growth-and-self-care/the-miracle-of-mindfulness-2/

Mara
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_(demon)

Brother Spirit
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-phap-linh

Thich Nhat Hanh: Redefining the Four Noble Truths
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eARDko51Xdw

Maitreya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitreya 

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Quotes

“When we receive a Dharma name, it is almost like a trust that we’re receiving. It is also the intention that a teacher sees our potential in it. And it’s something that is given to us to practice for our whole life.” 

“Learn to befriend yourself first, and then learn to be a friend of many.”

“Spiritual friendship is the whole of the spiritual path. It is the entirety of the spirit path.”

“Monk, you have to have a good friendship. You have to have good conversations. You have to have good deeds. You have to have good efforts. And then you have a grasp on impermanence.” 

“The joy of meditation is daily food.”

“One of our teacher Thay’s realizations was that our deepest suffering is loneliness, and it comes from the wrong views of what success is, which is individualistic.” 

“Reverence is the nature of my love.”

“In true love, there’s freedom.”

“True love is being present.”

“Understanding is another word for love.”

“Mindfulness always has to have an object.” 

“There are ways in which, when people hear, ‘Oh, in true love, there is freedom’, they will be like, ‘Oh, freedom means I can do whatever I want.’ There’s a sort of recklessness. And that’s not the type of freedom I’m talking about. I’m talking about some real, raw, internal stuff, where I can show up in this relationship and he can show up in this relationship in his undefended self.”

“We have to expand our hearts and our way of being to bring people in, because we need friends.”

“Thay said that even if you’re an activist and you’re saving people’s lives and you’re building humanity and rebuilding villages, if you’re doing it from a place of self, of pride and ego: don’t do it. Enter into interbeing; do this because you see them as you, then you can be ‘in service of’.”

“A true friend is someone who understands your suffering, who listens deeply without judging and who is capable of being there with you in difficult moments. They don’t try to fix you, they simply sit with you, in mindfulness. This kind of presence is rare and it is a great gift. When you find such a friend, cherish them, because they help you touch the peace and freedom that are already within you.”

“The greatest technology we have is each other. These relationships that we have with each other, we keep seeking something else. But the thing that makes us feel like we are living a meaningful life is being seen and acknowledged and recognized by the gaze of another person, the loving gaze of another person.” 

“The most powerful spiritual technology is the coming together.” 

“I tell people to come to Plum Village, but not to try to learn something. Come here just to be. Because I think our thirst for ‘a fix’ is so powerful now. We’re looking for a spiritual teaching to fix us; we’re looking to fix all of our suffering. And guess what? Some of your suffering, you might not be able to fix it.”