Emphasizing Clarity and Self-Kindness in Sales and Personal Growth

Alejo Porras, driven by a passionate pursuit of challenges, shares how embodying a can-do attitude has significantly propelled personal growth and career advancement. Beyond business success, Alejo is motivated by a desire to be a good father and husband and positively impact others.

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Running Order

• Intro
• Welcome
• Alejo's current work
• Sponsor: Concepts
• Tips
• Where to find Alejo
• Outro

Links

Amazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.

• Alejo's Website
• Alejo on Instagram
• Alejo on LinkedIn
• Alejo's newsletter FRESH IDEAS
• Hire Alejo for Graphic Recording
• Sketchnote Army Podcast Season 10 Episode 1
• Eddie Shleyner Website
• Steve Magness Book

Tips

1. Show up consistently, be present, and care about what you do.
2. Be kind to yourself.
3. Be curious about people to learn how to make them feel appreciated and loved.

Credits

• Producer: Alec Pulianas
• Shownotes and transcripts: Esther Odoro
• Theme music: Jon Schiedermayer

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Episode Transcript

Mike Rohde: Hey everyone, it's Mike and I'm here with my friend, Alejo Porras. Alejo, it's time to come back on the show. It's been, man, since 2021. You were in season 10, and so much has changed in your life. I thought it'd be cool to have you back on and talk about what's going on.

Alejo Porras: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me again, Mike. Honestly, you know, since 2021, I cannot believe it, I thought it was like last year.

MR: I know. Doesn't it seem like just recently?

AP: Yeah, it feels like not much has happened, but at the same time, so much has happened. And yeah, I appreciate the invitation again, and I'm looking forward to this conversation.

MR: Yeah. If you're listening here, I think the thing to listen for is I guess the growth and evolution of Alejo and where he was. We'll put a link in the show notes. His episode was season 10, episode 1, September 6th, 2021. We'll put a link to that so you can go listen to that if you're curious to see where he was and compare it to what he's doing now.

But you've been doing a lot of really interesting work. You challenged yourself to do lots of work intentionally. So you've been doing a lot of work. Someone that I follow and I really admire, Chris Doe is someone who you have been doing sketch noting about, and then it looks like you're working with him to some degree. So I'm just gonna step back, and why don't you take us from September 6th, 2021 till today and tell us what's going on?

AP: Oh my gosh. So, a lot. Well, when we talked last time, I was diving deep into artist coaching, and I had this dream, this desire of turning something that I had been doing for so long, which is coaching people, leading people, helping people do their best and excel in their careers. I was trying to figure out if there was something that I could do on the side because I had a full-time job at that point. And yeah, I just wanted to try that out. I had some coaching experiences, I took some coaches, and then I realized that my expertise didn't lay there, and it was hard for me to position myself as a coach when I was so widely known as an artist.

At some point, I was like, "I'm not giving it my all. I don't think this is moving forward. I'm helping people, but I don't feel like I even have the capacity because of my full-time job and my family to take on extra after work to get coaching with people." So I stopped that for a little bit. Then 2022 was a time in which I was struggling to find a balance and to find harmony with my rhythms of life. Partly because I was working a job that I absolutely loved. It was the best full-time job I have ever had and I was enjoying it.,

The problem was that I had to work a full-time job, and then I had to commute on certain days. It was an hour commute going to the office, an hour coming back, and then I came back home absolutely drained. I gave it all, and I was so exhausted. My son, who at the time was three and a half, four, maybe. Yeah, four. He wanted to play with me. I remember sometimes he was like, "Papa, play with me. Play with me." And I was there on the couch like, yeah, I want to. My eyes were starting to close and I felt like I was gonna start falling asleep. And I was like, "No, this cannot happen. I want to be a good dad. I want to be a present dad."

I still have my moments in which I'm probably working too much, but now that I'm freelancing or in my own business, it fluctuates. There's some days that I can just spend with him. But at that point, it was like every day I felt this tension of I'm not being a completely present dad, and that's not what I want. That's not what I wanted for my life. Part of that is my background with my relationship with my dad, because my parents divorced and then my dad was not physically present in my own home. And also, we didn't hang out that much. And I missed him for most of my teenage years and younger years.

I learned from him, even though he did the best that he could, you know, that we didn't have a close relationship. I remember when I was 16 or 15 that I committed myself and I thought, "I wanna be a great dad when I am a dad." So since that moment, I started kind of preparing myself and trying to do my best to become a good dad.

In '22, I was struggling with that tension. And in December of 2022, I had a meeting with my then bosses and they actually offered me a raise and a promotion. I felt something so odd 'cause the first impression was like, "Wow, I'm really thankful for that. You guys are trusting me and have obviously thought about this next stage very, very carefully." It was a substantial raise too. It was very generous, but I didn't feel happy about it. It was odd and it was partly this brewing sensation that I needed to make a change in my career. But I couldn't figure out how to take the step.

The thing that happened was that, that was on a Friday, and the Monday after that, my dad had a stroke, and on Wednesday he died. So through all the chaos, I was like, "I'm gonna think about it, guys. Thank you so much." I never say yes immediately. I have room to negotiate and all that stuff. And at that point, I hadn't said yes or no to what my then bosses have told me. They were very supportive and all that. I went to attend business to Costa Rica and do all the things that needed to do as only child that I am.

It was a wakeup call to me. It was like going back and reflecting on my relationship with my dad made me think really hard about the path that I was leading and how I want to be remembered as a dad by my son. So I then and there thought like, "I love this job, but I cannot continue in this capacity. I want to keep working with them, but I need to be at home more often. I need to have time for my family."

By January, I told them, you know, all of that. I told them, "Hey guys," 'cause I was creative lead, you know, at this company. And I was like, "I'm not gonna just go. Let's make a plan here 'cause I know you need to find somebody to fill the space and to fill the role. I wanna support you guys and you've been very good to me." So we devise a plan and it took me three, four months to transition to part-time. Now, they're my client. They're like my biggest client. I work with them for projects, but I don't have to go to the office except if I'm doing a workshop 'cause I work workshops with them.

It's been great since then. It's kinda like the silver lining how something so sad, you know, and choking serves in a way to wake me up and realize that the path that I need to take is different. I feel like from that point on, my life has been taken off. So, you know, it's been great since, you know, since April-May last year when I started just working from home in my own business with my wife. The opportunities that have arrived since then is something that I didn't even imagine. I couldn't have planned. The last day that I had as I was working full-time, the day after that I went to a conference to Creative South. I think you've been there.

MR: Yeah, I've heard of that before. I've never been, but I've heard it. It looks really great.

AP: Yeah. I think it was a perfect kind of segue into my new life, I will say. 'Cause I got with other creatives and I got pumped about things that I do. Got a lot of feedback of things that I'm—because I did sketch notes there and people loved them and all this stuff. So I was like, "Okay, I have content here. I can start promoting that I do this thing, you know, as myself and then try to figure out how to structure my business in a way that fits the lifestyle that I want to achieve."

So I hired a coach right away, and I started working with her. Well, one of the first things that she told me was, you know, "A lot of people that I work—" She was with corporate CEOs and all that stuff. She said, "A lot of people have trouble in their business trying to promote it because the benefit of what they do, it's kind of abstract, but the benefit of what you do is immediately visible. When you show your sketch note, people can immediately see the value of it. So you have an advantage here. All you need to do to get clients is to show your work, you know, and show it consistently."

And she told me, "Maybe one thing that you can do is just to join people that you admire in webinars that they're having, in the conversations that they're having, and do sketch notes and just, you know, send them to them and see what happens. See what feedback you get there. You get goodwill from that. And also, it's an opportunity maybe, you know, to get noticed if they decide to reshare that stuff."

I was like, "Yeah, that's a good idea. I have a lot of people that I admire and I would love to just, you know, from the content, just do sketch notes and share it with them." It was so funny 'cause the first one that I did was a workshop—no, it wasn't a workshop. It was like a —yeah, it was a workshop, I guess that was kind of promoting a course. I had forgotten about it, and I was about to take a break for lunch and I saw it on my calendar and it was like, it starts in 10 minutes. I was like, "Should I join? I don't know."

MR: How hungry am I?

AP: Yeah. I was like, "You know what, let's do it." But at that point, I was just joining workshops in general. I wasn't necessarily taking sketch notes. But when he started, he said, "I apologize for the presentation. I haven't used PowerPoint since I was in college. But the content is there and the content was great."

And I thought, "Hmm, maybe I can just do a sketch note. You know, put some graphics to what he's saying and then send it to him kind of like, 'Hey, you know, your webinar was awesome. The content was fantastic. Here's something, you know, if he interested you, you can repurpose it for your next, you know, webinar or whatever.'" 'Cause I've followed his work and his content for a while.

I did that. And the thing is, he hadn't finished because he finished a workshop and then he had Q&A , and during the Q&A I got them polished, and before all the thing was finished, I posted it. And when he finished the workshop and hopped on Instagram and saw it, he was like, "Whoa, this is cool."

MR: What the heck?

AP: Exactly. He reshared it. And I think that kind of snowballed from there, because I committed myself to do one sketch note every week. So I either join a webinar, join a workshop, or there's no events happening, I just listen to a podcast and then do that. That has taught me—I'm making this story super long.

MR: That's okay.

AP: But that has taught me the thing for us visual artists in general, and especially, you know, your crowd who does sketch notes and graphic recording and all that stuff, show your work and show up in spaces with the kind of people that you will love to be working with. I initially just did it from, you know, thought leaders and people that I follow, that I admire, and that I'm grateful for their content. And kind of like, "Hey, I'm grateful, just this is as a thank you, you know, for you."

And it also served me for practice because I discovered certain things about my style, how I wanted to show my work in a way that was different from the kind of work that I was doing before for other people. It gave me more confidence and it and definitely helped me, you know, open some doors. Chris Doe is one of those doors that was open just because I showed up. And I'm super grateful. I say to people that I have learned so much from Chris Doe because I have followed him since 2000, I think 17 or '16. And I have learned so much that I feel like by doing this thing, I'm kinda like paying him back.

MR: Yeah. That's interesting.

AP: I kinda owe him a lot of money for all the business advice that I've gotten from him. So I'm just trying to pay it back, pay it forward. And yeah, it's been phenomenal. And right now that's what I'm doing. I'm doing, I call it visual summaries because there's a lot of it that is not life. It's just people sending me content for the recorded stuff.

MR: Recorded stuff. Yeah.

AP: Yeah, recorded stuff. Yeah. So I'm doing that and growing my business and it's been great. It's been great so far. So long story, long. There you go.

MR: Well, that's what a podcast is for, right? You can tell the long stories and not feel constrained or compressed. Well, that's really cool. That's quite a shift. I find it interesting that you were right at this precipice. And I can imagine if they were making you an offer to be elevated in the company, it wasn't gonna be less time at the office or less responsibility or less of your mind, it would be more.

And as it was, you were already maxed out, even without doing the side stuff, you're coming home just totally s sapped out. And it was in a way, leaving you with no energy for your son or your wife or anything that you wanted to do on your own, because it was so intense.

AP: Yeah. When I started there, I was wearing many hats and, you know, they put me on one hat and I intentionally took all the hats because that's just the kind of person that I am. I like to do different things and learn. So the restructuring of that was, "Okay, let's just put you one hat. One hat that is very important that only you can do." So definitely it was more responsibility. It wouldn't have required more time in work, you know, but it was definitely more responsibility and more a managerial aspect of things.

So yeah, it was probably like taking a step up into the corporate ladder. And even though I didn't have to wear a tie, I would've felt that way. It's fine because now that I'm freelancing—well, not freelancing, I own my own business, I have to know all those things as well. So I'm doing that, but I'm also very involved in the fulfillment part of actually doing the drawings and being part of that. So I think it's a good balance by now.

After my other coach, I got enrolled in another cohort that I am right now. Well, at this point of this interview, I'm still going through it. And it's been great because I'm just learning from other experts and people who are in the creative industry who have way more experience than me, are making way more money than I am. And that's where I like to be. I like to feel like I'm the small fish that has room to grow. And these spaces where I feel inadequate, 'cause I don't have that much knowledge, make me feel like there's definitely a way in which I can create this business that helps the lifestyle that I want to achieve.

Because I don't dream with becoming a huge company that has a lot of employees and that is busy all the time. I dream with having to work just the amount of time that I want to work and making all the money that I can from that time because I want the work to support my lifestyle. I don't want my lifestyle to be the second thought to make my business grow, if that makes sense.

MR: Mm-hmm.

AP: So, yeah, it's been fun.

MR: Interesting. What kind of opportunities has that opened up? Obviously, you talked about doing this weekly sketch note or visual summary. Something visual weekly, maybe that's a good way to say it, right?

AP: Yeah.

MR: Because I can imagine someone's listening and thinking, "Ooh, that's a really good idea. Maybe I should try that." Are there any recommendations you can say around how do you structure it, what to look for if someone is—or is there a way to structure it in a way that encourages people to reach out to you? Should there be an end slide that's got your info? Should you have a link? What kind of stuff would encourage someone who sees it to like, "Oh, I wanna hire that person," kind of thing. Assuming someone wants to do similar thing.

AP: That is a great question. And I think to answer that question, people need to take into consideration that all learning compounds so there's not a one trick that solves everything, is a collection of different aspects that all enhance the opportunity that you have. I think all the life is trying to find how to increase your odds of success. There's no guaranteed success, right? It's just more odds, more possibilities for that so that when opportunities show up, you're kind of, you have fertile ground.

This is gonna sound completely unexpected, but copywriting and personal interaction, I think are one of the most important aspects when you're showing what you do. I've learned, because I also took a class in communication, and I've been learning about copywriting. Two years ago, I found this guy Eddie, I forgot his last name. He has a website that's called VeryGoodCopy, and his newsletter is really, really good. He teaches people how to write copywriting for advertising and stuff like that.

All of that is very useful because at the end of the day, if you have something that is great, you know, if your work is amazing and you cannot communicate the value of it, people won't get it. Sometimes you have to give people the words that they can use to describe what you do. I'm not an expert by all means, but I've learned to copyright to a degree in which I feel like I'm okay at it, and I can communicate something that is clear when I'm doing a post and when I'm sharing what I do with other people.

So I would say, you know, become curious about learning how to write well, how to communicate your ideas well, in written form in a way that is succinct, that is clear. And hopefully, you know, get somebody to help you out with that if it's a struggle. I have the enormous privilege that my wife is really good at writing. So she's my editor. Another thing that I've done to improve my writing is I have a newsletter that goes every Monday, and I have her read most of my newsletters.

Sometimes I just forget or I just write it at last minute, like on Sunday night. So she's already asleep and I need to send it. But she has helped me to polish and make my ideas more clear when I communicate them. So that's one thing, you know, communication. And the other one has to do with kinda like the art of conversation being somebody who is genuinely curious about connecting with other people.

After all, social media has the word "social" for a reason. If you just post things there and you expect that people are just kinda click on them and interact for some magical reason, you're delusional or you're selfish because that's an ad. You know, an ad is something that you put in front of somebody who doesn't know you, and you expect that they do something about it. But for that, you need to have a good copy so that they know why they should interact with it.

I've developed this kinda like taste. There's one thing that I'm doing right now, for example, is I am forcing myself that if I like something on Instagram, on LinkedIn, I have to write a comment and the comment has to be useful. Not, not just like, "Hey, that's great, or that's cool." Because that doesn't add any value. And I just imagine, you know, like, "I did this sketch note, look at these guys. I'm so proud of it." And somebody's like, "Cool," you know.

MR: That's nice, but that doesn't really, yeah.

AP: Yeah. And it is like, "Okay, I appreciate it, but I don't really remember that person." The person who said cool versus the person who said, "Oh my gosh, this is so great. I had learned about this, and this is helping me in this reason." Was like, oh, we engage in a conversation now and I noticed this person. I've realized, for example, LinkedIn is great about that because on Instagram when you comment, it kinda like stays there, but LinkedIn is very focused on interaction and commenting to the point that the people that I follow when they comment on something, even if it's somebody that I don't know, I see their comments and I can join that conversation.

So I really love that. Is all about making these conversations happen. Before I connected with anybody, I engaged with their content, and that's what I do right now. I try to find people that's like, "Oh, I love what they do." A lot of people is like, "Send friend requests or send connection requests". I follow to see what they're doing, and I comment and I stay on the radar, and once I have earned their trust and they already see that I'm there, then I feel like that's the point in which you can eventually send a connection request or, you know, move a little bit further into something like that.

I love that approach because it's not salesy. I'm not trying to sell things to anybody. I'm just trying to kind of make friends and make contacts and add value. I know that said a lot, but just give something that people enjoy that is insightful, that helps them in some way or entertains them. And if there's a good relationship there, I feel like it's just way easier because when you have a relationship with somebody that you, like, you support them, you know, and you don't feel like you're being sold to. It's like, "Oh, I do this thing. Oh, so cool. What can I do for you?" That's something that has helped me a lot. Just kinda like making relationships with people online.

Now, I don't know that—I guess people will still have the question of like, okay, so I get it, I have to learn how to write, I have to get out of my shell and start making some friends. But what about the actual sketch note portfolio thing? I think what I did is just something that you can replicate. I honestly don't mind if you don't do it. Hey, if you do it, I will say challenging yourself to do one a week.t is very, you know, low-hanging fruit, I will say. It's not that hard to do.

MR: It's doable. It's doable. Yeah.

AP: Yeah. It's very doable. You do one a week and you commit yourself to share it every week. It doesn't have to be a specific day, just like one a week. It forces you—I look back and I did a reel about it that showed like, pah, pah, pah.

MR: I saw that. Yeah.

AP: Yeah. And I was like, wow, I did all that?

MR: I did all that? Yeah.

AP: Yeah. It is very rewarding. It's very rewarding. I like how James Clear, I think is who says, "You're kind of gathering proof." Because people say, "Fake it till you make it." I'm more of the side of like, make it, and the more you make it, you gather proof of how you actually are, or who you really want to be. So, yeah, I'm a sketch noter because I do it now. Before it was like, I'm gonna do it every day. And now it's like I have proof of that. Proof that nobody can deny much less myself. So I hope that's helpful.

MR: That reminds me of I have a few friends who have PhDs and something that I remember that my one friend told me was, if you go into academia, there are a million, they're called ABDs, all but dissertation. They're people that did all the coursework and now they're challenged with writing the dissertation, which they have to then defend and then they receive their PhD. That's like the hardest step. And he said there's a million ABDs out there because the easy part is doing the coursework 'cause It's structured. The hard part is now taking all that coursework, choosing what your focus area is, and then going to research it and prove it and defend it. That's the hard part.

I think that's the same thing with doing any kind of work. Like writing a book would be an example, one thing or anything where you're consistently doing things over and over again. It proves like, "Hey, Alejo showed up again this week. Wow, man, I can expect that something's coming every week." And it gives you credibility, I think, that you are committed, right? You're showing commitment where it's easy to just occasionally now and then do something and not have that commitment. It doesn't have quite the impact, you know?

AP: Yeah, definitely true. Not only for, you know, promotional reasons, but just from a personal standpoint. Again, because the beginning of that would be to prove to yourself that you can do it and that you're the kind of person that does this thing. 'Cause I feel like that's the mental barrier that is harder to actually jump over. I was actually talking with my wife this morning. Of course, at the beginning of this conversation before we started recording, I was telling Mike that I did a cop lunch this morning.

And it was an interesting experience, but what I didn't tell him was something that it just struck me when I was doing it and after I finished doing that was that I have a motto for this year, and my motto is, "I can do hard things." I've been doing personal training, working out, trying to get in better shape. I've been also crossing my comfort zone to show up in different situations that are awkward or difficult and prove myself that I can do it.

When I was doing that, I was like, most people will say, "Oh my gosh, you're crazy. I would never get in a bathtub that is cold for no reason." Because it's painful. Because it's hard. And it is very tempting to think people are not doing something that is beneficial because it's hard, because it's difficult, because it's painful. But actually, most people, the barrier that they have is not the pain, it's not the hardship, it's actually comfort.

Comfort is the first barrier that you have that you need to cross to achieve the life that you want to live, to achieve the success that you want to achieve, to get the clients that you want to have. Because we are very comfortable in our comfort zone, right? We're very comfortable with being who we are at this moment. And that challenge, it's not the challenge itself, it's just losing that comfort, is what scares most of us.

I'm starting to trying to ignore comfort. It's not that I'm becoming masochistic by any means, you know. I still like coffee, shoes and stuff like that. But in certain things, I feel like as a culture, we probably worship too much comfort and convenience and that has taken a toll in the amount of reach and growth that we can potentially have as human beings, not just physically, but also mentally and in business as well. As artists, of course, so don't get comfortable would be just summarizing all that. Don't get too comfortable. Comfort is not a great thing if you want to grow.

MR: Maybe comfort in moderation, right? Just like anything else.

AP: Yeah. Yeah.

MR: It's funny you mentioned doing hard things. There's actually a book, I can see it over in my library area called Do Hard Things by Steve Magnus. It's actually a book that was written I think last year. Really fascinating. He's a performance coach for Olympic athletes and things like that. And then he talks about how important it's to do difficult things. Kind of what you're saying, that develops this. And, you know, it's interesting when I look back, I've had things break that I had to fix or things that I had to solve where, "Well, I'm just gonna have to figure this out." I felt really good afterwards when I solved it. You know, it's really satisfying.

AP: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we're created for that. The way that we are wired is to solve things and feel, fulfilled. It's very hard to say, but we find fulfillment and purpose when we are doing something that is improving something else. That we're solving a problem. It's just very rewarding. I feel like at the core, we all need to experience that we are capable. You know, part of that is, you know, doing for myself the physical training. It's like, I wanna know that I can run. I don't wanna feel like my body is getting in the way of what I am able to accomplish.

I don't remember who I told this, but I used to sing a lot. I actually went through like 10 years of training for singing. It was fantastic. I loved it. I still like to sing. The problem is that at some point, and I think it's probably when I came here to the U.S., I developed a lot of allergies and all that, and I felt like my range of voice has lowered.

So sometimes I'll be listening to a song and inside of me, I know how I should accommodate my mouth and the level of pressure of air that I should put into it, and how I put my tongue and all that. I know what I could do to reach that note, to reach that volume, but I can't physically do it right now because of the problems that I have. And it's so frustrating. I know how I could do it, but I can do it. It's one of the worst feelings to experience.

And I don't wanna—I know we have limitations that there's—I'm probably not gonna be able to be an Olympic athlete or something like that, but I know in my body, and I know in my mind there's certain things—or maybe I'm just delusional, but I believe that I can do way more than I can do right now. What's keeping me from doing that is something that I can work on. And that's what I'm trying to do. I'm just trying to work on, because when I accomplish those simple steps, you know, just showing up my work, being recognized by people that I admire and not only from people that I admire, but from people who see me and say like, yeah, of course.

You know, there was a friend who saw me—I got on an Instagram live with Chris Doe, and a friend was like, "Oh, look at that. Alejo is just talking with Chris Doe." Sure. For him was like, "Of course, why not?" And I'm like, "Are you kidding me? This is Virginia. I don't know how it happened to me, you know, but"

The certain things that now that I'm doing and some people are noticing, believing in myself more than I sometimes do, it's just very rewarding because just showing up and just try to push that boundary and actually accomplishes those things, it makes me feel so alive. And it's something that I would love for everybody to experience. And again, the wall that is you know covering that is just the comfort zone. So get over it. Step over it. Yeah.

MR: It's funny. I have a story that came to mind when you're talking about that and it's years ago I did illustrations for Rework and Remote with Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson at 37signals. And they invited me 'cause I'm in Milwaukee. I'm an hour and a half train right away. They said, "Hey, we wanna hire you to do some sketch notes. We have these big chalkboards in our office. Would you come down and do a mural on one of these chalkboards with chalk?"

I was like, "Yeah, sure." So I gave 'em a price and they agreed and hired me to come down. And I got there and I bought all these chalk and I had ideas about what I was gonna do. And I think it's on my Flickr account buried deep in the history. But I got there and I remember Jason and I were talking and Jason said, "So you got a lot of experience doing chalk." I was like, "I have no idea, but I'll be an expert by the end of the day."

I just knew that, "Okay, it can't be that hard. I mean, you know, it's my personality, it's gonna come out, I'm gonna figure things out." I had played around with chalk before. It wasn't like I never used chalk in my life, so it wasn't that. But I knew that by the end of the day, I would be really good at it and have an approach to how to do it. You know, which by the time I got to the end of the day, I went back to the beginning, oh, I could fix that and I would adjust things and, you know, made it into this cool mural thing.

But it was the attitude of like, "Hey, this is an experiment they're okay with. They trust me as Mike to do something." 'Cause I had proven myself, we talked about proving yourself. I'd done all kinds of work before. So they knew who I was, they trusted me, and then they turned me loose on their chalkboards and paid me money to do this and kind of experiment. But I knew we're gonna figure this out. And they were confident and they were really happy at the end. So, you can get to that place.

AP: Mike, that is amazing because that speaks to a characteristic that I believe everybody who is just starting in their career or anything that they're trying to accomplish should acquire in order to grow and is saying yes. Whatever shows up in front of you, if you're not completely ready, if you don't feel like you're completely qualified but you have the opportunity, just say yes and figure it out on the go. Because honestly, life is all about that.

Because you don't have a school that tells you, "This is how life's gonna go," and then you're ready and everything's gonna go as planned. Life is awesome, but throwing curve balls happens all the time. And what we need to do is to develop the skill to adapt to those circumstances. So everything in life is adaptation. And when you treat your career as, "I'm not ready, I'm gonna get ready for this or I don't feel unqualified, I'm gonna learn to get better at that."

Then you learn a skill and hopefully you even get paid to learn that skill. Which is amazing. You know, you're not paying a institution, you're not paying a workshop, they're paying you to learn. Now of course, if there's something that is like super high stakes, sometimes you gotta be careful with that, but I think that most of the time we actually—the stakes are not as high.

MR: We elevate them more than maybe they really are.

AP: Exactly. Exactly. So it's definitely a great—and I've approached my life in that way all the time. It's just because I'm kind of crazy about challenges. You know, I'm just like, "Challenge accepted, let's try it out." Sometimes that has translated into me being a little bit unfocused of like, I wanna try just many different things. So, you know, from a few years, probably '22 till now, I'm trying to just do the one thing. You know, I'm doing the sketchnotes, I'm doing the graphic recording stuff. This is what I'm doing.

I'm not playing music anymore. Not because I don't like it, I love it. It is just I need to focus and learning this business and all that stuff. But there's a lot about business that I don't know, and I cannot sit down and try to plan the perfect business model and pretend that I'm gonna start when I have it figured out. No, you build the boat as you go. Definitely it's a great attitude to have. I'm figuring it out. It's a great attitude to have.

MR: If you're listening, here's the challenge. Have you ever taken a job where when you did the interview and you got there to the first day and you thought, "Oh man, this" is way beyond my capability. And then six months later, like, "What was I thinking? I could definitely do this. I'm already looking at new ways to do things." You know, I've experienced that many times on jobs where, you know, I would not totally kind of believe I could do it. And like my wife would like, "Dude, you got this." Or friends or other people I worked with would know that I would be able to do it.

So everybody's kind of experienced that where, you know, it's just a normal human fear, like a failure, but you just have to go forward. I look at like, if it's too easy, maybe that's actually a warning sign that maybe that's not as important as finding something that's just a little bit scary. Just a little bit scary, right? That "I haven't totally done that before. How would that go?"

Putting yourself into a corner, right.? I like to say, "Put yourself in the pickle. How am I gonna get myself out of this pickle I found myself in?" So it forces you to be adaptable and to think of like, "Well, what are the resources I have on hand? What are good things about this situation that I can leverage?" And turn that in a positive direction because there always seems to be when you really look at it.

AP: That's true. Mike, I know that you are interviewing me, but I've very, very curious to make this question.

MR: Go for it.

AP: I imagine you probably have had a lot of situations like this, so maybe just the first one that comes to your head, besides the chalkboard that you just explained, a very uncomfortable situation that you have said yes to, or something that was like probably the highest one that you feel like this was very challenging and you just kinda went for it and prayed that it would work out.

MR: Well, there's two instances. I think one that was more difficult was, I was talking with the New York City School District and there was somebody, a principal of a school wanted to have me come in and teach his staff, but apparently there was lots of paperwork and it was complicated and he wasn't totally sure how to make it happen.

But then he was talking with somebody who was higher up that said, "Well, we need a keynote speaker for the last talk of the year to come fly in and talk to 600 teachers in Brooklyn at this high school." So he said, "Hey, would you be open to doing that? If we do that, you'll be in the system, and then after that, then you can come and do my thing."

"Yeah, sure, let's go for it." And so, I was a little bit scared. I'm in New York City, there's, you know, tough New York City teachers, right? There's 600 of them out in this audience. Like, "Holy cow, this maybe is the biggest crowd that I've ever spoken to." I went back to what I know that there's something in here for somebody. Now, that might not be for everybody. There's gonna be people that will tune me out. That's just the way it is. But there's some people out here who are really gonna benefit.

And the way we had structured it too was I did the presentation about the story of sketchnotes and did some really basic drawing stuff with them. And then we had sessions afterwards where we had intense workshops where they actually did work building their sketchnoting skills. I was like, "Oh man, I'm gonna give this talk and there's 800 teachers here, no one's gonna come to my thing.

There's all these thoughts going through my head. Like, there's a lot of people. I'm gonna invite them to these—I think we had two classes, one before and one after lunch. Like, no one's gonna come. And it was like, people were saying how much they enjoyed it. The room was packed. They ran outta room, you know, and it really reinforced then that the principal had made a really good choice.

And then the next year, which was, I think that was the last travel I did before the pandemic in early 2020. So I went out and spent the day with his group. You think about that, if I had said no, just think of the opportunities that it would've closed off for me. And also, the confidence building. Like, hey, I can speak in front of eight, 900 tough New York City teachers. And they liked it and they packed up my classes. It was really encouraging. So it went from potentially scary to really encouraging by the end.

AP: Yeah. That's phenomenal. That's great. I love those stories because they definitely bring the point down, you know, bring the point up or I don't know, bring the point to highlight it that definitely things can turn way better than we expect if we just dare to try. I'm a firm believer that, and I've said this before, that the doors of opportunity may seem closed, but that doesn't mean that they're locked. I'm gonna say that again 'cause I butcher it.

The doors of opportunity may seem closed, but that doesn't mean that they're locked. And you can either knock on the door if you're able, or be friends with people in the neighborhood that can introduce you to it. But I realize many doors are just waiting to be knocked and we're just hesitant about it.

The first time we were in this podcast, I reach out to you. I hadn't done any podcast before and I was like, "What if I just reach out to the founder of Sketch notes and tell him, 'Hey, how would I do an interview?' Would he ignore me? Would he be too busy for me? I don't know. I'm just gonna try." And you were like, "Yeah, sure, let's do it." I was like, "Oh, he's actually excited about it."

After that I was like, "Okay, I'm just gonna start asking people for things." I'm not intruding, I'm just asking. And it turns out when you ask people answer and the answer is better than the silence that you get from not trying.

MR: Yeah. Even sometimes you get a no, but no, that doesn't fit for this. But hey, could you do this thing over here? This thing next week? Sometimes the thing that's a no can turn into a something else, or sometimes.

AP: Yeah. That's something that I've learned from sales 'cause that's one thing that I'm learning a lot right now. What I've learned in the past few weeks is the purpose of a sales conversation is to reach to a no or a yes. If you get a no or a yes, the conversation was worth it and was successful. If you get a maybe or an I don't know, that was unsuccessful. You need to figure out and help the client or the prospect arrive to a decision that is either no or yes.

For me, it's the same. I prefer when I ask anything to get a yes or a no, because a no gives me information that I need to learn. The yes gives me the opportunity, but the silence or the, maybe it's awful. You don't know how to deal with that. I figure like at the end of the day, it's better to ask than to just stay wondering what would've happened if I had tried.

MR: Yeah, those who ask get many times.

AP: Yep. Right. That's absolutely true.

MR: Well, in true nature, so this is a very different episode of the podcast than we normally do, which I love, right. We just had a good discussion and talking about these ideas, and I think they're helpful for anybody listening who's individual thinking it's a human problem, human challenge, right?

AP: Yeah.

MR: Let me ask you for three tips, and I want you to think of it this way, is Alejo just went on a journey from 2021, I think, to now, and there's some new tips that he is learned since the last time he was here. If you were to give three tips to people listening based on what you've learned to this point, what would those three tips be for them?

AP: The first one would be—okay, I'm gonna say the first one in the second place.

MR: Okay.

AP: The first one would actually be to show up. I firmly believe that success is not what you achieve once you do something, success is showing up. It's believing in yourself that you are enough to take space in the world and show what you do. I think that's the first thing. Just show up consistently, be present, care about what you do.

The second one with that, I think it's kinda like a requisite, and that's why I'm merging it kind of weird, but be kind to yourself. I say this, you know, maybe if you're listening and you're a little bit like me, just a little bit like me, you struggle with some insecurities, not because you feel like you're not capable or because you're afraid of how people might perceive you.

I have been for ages kind of people pleaser. I love to make people feel well. I love it. I love to give a good impression for people, but I've had to learn in next few years that I also need to think about my own wellbeing. Sometimes not not doing my best or not approaching something makes me kind of doubt myself or be too hard on myself.

This idea of being kind to yourself, I think it's at the core of whatever you're gonna try. Because if you're doing something for the first time, or you're doing something that you haven't done a lot, it's just logical that you're probably gonna suck at it. You know, you're gonna be very bad. You're probably gonna fail a lot. And that's okay.

So while you are attempting these new things, be kind to yourself to remember, I'm learning, I'm trying, I'm doing my best, I'm growing, and this is moving me forward. Because if you're not kind with yourself, you're gonna stop showing up. And that will be a shame because people will miss you. The world will miss your gift. So show your gift, you know, show up consistently. Be kind to yourself.

The third one could be I guess, I'm gonna frame it as the golden rule sort of thing. Maybe it's just a platinum rule. The golden rule is do unto others what you would have done unto yourself. I like to challenge that a little bit because if I were to treat people how I like to be treated, some people will not get it right. I'm a very—and this is a funny story parenthesis here. In Costa Rica and Latin America in general, we're very touchy. You know, we hug, you know, we're very, "Hey, how you doing?"

The first time that I was here in the United States, I had a friend that took me to his college and introduced me some people there. There were these three ladies on a table, they were having lunch. And he was like, "Hey, this is Alejo. He's my friend Costa Rica." And I immediately went and say hi with a kiss in the cheek. And they were like, "What just happened?" And I was like, "Did I do something wrong? What happened?" He said, "We don't do that here. I was like, "Oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't—that's how we do it. It's probably very naive of me, but now I know like, not everybody likes to be greeted that way. That's a boundary that I respect.

So I don't treat people how I would like them to treat me. I try to figure out how they want to be treated and then treat them that way. So I will say the third one would be—well, the second one is be kind to yourself. And the third one would be be curious about other people so that you can learn how to treat them better so that you can learn how to make them feel appreciated, Loved. Because that not only goes for personal relationships, very close, you know, like a partner or family or stuff like that.

But you know, we are in business, you know, most of the people that listen here have some sort of business or are working in some capacity. And when you treat other people according to how they need to be treated, you're showing them that you care for them, that you respect them, and that creates a better relationship that can enhance the you know, the work that you have with them and can even make you like you so much that they can recommend you to others. So you never know how this gonna happen.

In general, I feel like just being a nice person, it's a good thing. So, try to be a nice person. Onto the point of like, I am being nice, but I'm not being nice for people to like me. I'm just being nice because I like people. It's very different. I'm gonna say that again probably, you know, because it might take some time to let it sink in. Being nice because you like other people, not because you're trying to make them like you. Two very different things. The second one is people pleasing. The first one is just an attitude of you are a loving person.

And it changes completely. You're not approaching things as if you were needy or craving for attention. You're just trying to be helpful. And that makes that, if somebody doesn't appreciate what you give or is being disrespectful with you, you can put boundaries and you can, you know, keep your cool, I would say, without feeling attacked or sad or, you know, depressed or anything like that.

MR: It takes away the burden, right? You can be nice to people because it's just the right thing to do without any strings to say, you have to like me now. That's the trade where the unspoken trade is I'm gonna be nice to you, but you have to like me. And you can just let go of that, right. Like this is just the way I am. Whether you're mean to me or you're nice to me, I'm gonna still be consistent. I'm gonna still treat you the right way because that's the way my mom and dad taught me. That's the way I think is the right way. I want my kids to treat people that way and that's the way it's gonna be. So how you react has nothing to do with how I treat you kind of almost.

AP: Absolutely. I had this conversation recently on LinkedIn 'cause I shared a few—there was somebody who put like a list of the most prominent or cool visual artist in LinkedIn and stuff like that. And I was like, "Oh, I like this. I'm gonna tag some people that I know. And I tagged some, my son was like, "Hey papa, come play with me." So I didn't write everybody that I could think of. I just wrote a few and then send it. And then somebody started adding up. It's like, "Oh, there's so many people doing this thing. This is amazing. Let's just share and, you know, highlight everybody."

And then somebody wrote me personally and this person was a little bit conflicted. It was like, "I didn't add anybody there." This person just became very honest with me. It's like, "There's a lot of great people doing these things, but I feel like some people, some of them, they just don't reciprocate. You know, some of them are just doing their own thing, or I feel like they're plain ignore me," or, you know, something like that.

And I was telling this person, "It's their problem, and maybe they're just too busy or maybe they just don't like social media and it's not anything personal. So I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt." And be like, "Well, I'm doing this because of who I am, because I want to help my audience by showing them people that I admire. Even if some of these people might never return any favors to me, I don't care. It's me, the one who's being generous and that's who I care about." So, you know, if somebody's being straight up bully with you, then, you know, of course that's—

MR: That's a long story. Yeah, yeah.

AP: But you know, besides that, I think from your heart of generosity, nothing bad can come.

MR: Yeah. I think it's just a good way to operate in the world. I've just seen it open too many good opportunities. Even just being nice to the person at the—I picked up a prescription the other day and I was chatting with the lady and she said, "Drive safely." Like, you know, just there's opportunities everywhere. A lot of times we are so in our head or we're so afraid to mess up. We don't say anything. And there's opportunities to be nice and maybe you made somebody's day. I don't know. I mean, so great tips. These are great tips. Thank you so much.

AP: Sure thing. I'm glad it'll be helpful.

MR: I'm looking at the old episode and we have links to your website and Twitter and Instagram. What's the best place to reach you and are there places you hang out the most? Sounds like LinkedIn probably has moved up the list a little bit for you. I suppose.

AP: Yeah. Now I do have a caveat for LinkedIn because I've shared some stuff that people have reshared and have gotten to so many eyeballs out there. I have at this moment 300 requests for connection.

MR: Oh, wow.

AP: And most of them, I've never seen them in my life, I don't know who they are, and I don't know why they want to reach out to me. What I say is like, "Hey, you can follow people everywhere." That sounds very creepy, but you know, you can follow people on Instagram. You can follow people on LinkedIn if you're interested in their content. If you want to connect, then I think the first step is just to have conversations.

So gauge, you know, show up in the comments, show up that you're interested and show up as a valuable person. Because at the end of the day, we want to spend time with people that add value to our lives. We can love everybody, but we're gonna spend time with people who add value to our lives.

MR: Right. You have to make a decision.

AP: Yeah. Exactly. So if you want to connect with me on LinkedIn, make sure that first you engage with my content and you comment and you make yourself known. And when you send a request, send a message that says—

MR: Yes, that's key.

AP: Hey, you know, I've been following you for a while.

MR: Context. Yeah.

AP: Yeah. And the context is not just, "I love your work, let's connect." Okay, if you love my work, you're following, you can keep loving my work, but what are you trying to add to my life? That is not selfish at all 'cause also I have connections. Are you just trying to access my connections, you know? I don't know. So I have that rule, like it's just a policy, you know, I call it. I don't accept connection requests unless I know this person. And they have given me a clear reason why they want to connect with me with, not just with the idea of getting something from me, but also, they're trying to be, you know, mutual.

So that's my thing. But I love to say that Instagram is my neighborhood and LinkedIn is downtown where I go to work. I take the business part of LinkedIn very seriously and Instagram is a little bit more loose in that regard. You can send me messages on LinkedIn and I will—eh, on Instagram and I will definitely newer there. So, but those are the two places where I'm at. I'm on Threads too, but not too often.

MR: That's basically Instagram with text only, I suppose.

AP: Yeah.

MR: What's the old phrase? Party in the front business in the back or business In the front party in the back.

AP: Yeah. Or like those, you have the restaurant on the first floor and the—

MR: Residence on the second floor.

AP: - resident second floor or something like that, I guess. I don't know.

MR: I dunno. We're stretching the metaphor now.

AP: We're stretching. Yeah.

MR: It's about to break, which is an indication that maybe we should wrap this up.

AP: Yep. Yep.

MR: Well, hey, Alejo, this has been so great to have you on. Thank you for all you do. I'm so happy that we've connected these many years ago, and so proud of the work you're doing. I just wanna let you know, thank you for all the great work you're doing to move the community forward and to help people, and to encourage people, and just really super happy with the way you're living your life in the world. So thank you for that.

AP: Thank you. Thank you. I see it as a privilege and I take it seriously. I want to be able to, even if it's by a small degree, to help somebody's life be better. I have a lot of people who pour out on me and make my life better because they just decided to show up. So I'm showing up, and I hope that it really helps other people, even if it's just a small degree. I feel like that would be a life worth living.

MR: That sounds great. Well, thanks. And for anyone who's watching or listening to the show, this is another episode. Until the next episode of Sketchnote Army Podcast, talk to you soon.