"I don't really want to get married to the outcome of I have to sell you this," he says. "When I do that, then I stop being interested in what's good for you and I start being interested only and what’s good for me." The pastor framework is about amplifying the problem and the pain that will result if you don't solve the problem", shepherds job is to protect the sheep,. If we don't have a product that doesn't help somebody avoid some kind of pain or consequence, we're probably not selling very much of that product, right? Because people are trying to solve their problems.