“If you’re a reporter in Beijing right now, you have to assume that the Chinese government knows every source you’re meeting with, that they know every interview you’re going to do.” When Jane Perlez worked as the New York Times bureau chief in Beijing, she supervised 15 journalists. Now, the Times has only two journalists permanently based in China—and only 20 American journalists remain in the country. Jane Perlez, who spent 7 years reporting in China for the Times and is now the host of “Face-Off: The U.S. vs China,” joins the podcast to discuss the journalism climate in China right now and how the U.S.-China political-economic relationship has evolved since COVID and President Trump’s re-election.