The reality of the reality of the whole day. Yeah. The whole

thing. I'm a bad man, but you know, it's a heavy existence. And I think we have to acknowledge it because otherwise it's just an unfair trade. It's just an unfair trade. Real talk. Why did you guys? I mean, wasn't, okay, let me start with a positive. Was the driving reunion fun for you?

I think at first it was, but then, you know, it kind of like it had a lot of unsolved issues from back then. Mainly the main one being like, we were following the guidelines of the mental health rule we had placed for each other. And some of you guys didn't really follow that. And you went and saw some people saw the advice of pop stars who I had no affinity with. And those pop stars were like, no, stay, stay the course. And I just thought, well, is another reason why I don't like your music or you as a person? Because you don't understand the human part of it yet. Your music tends to bring people together and say, hey, take care of that part of your life. But, you know, you guys stay in the job, stay in the job. So, it was a lot of unresolved issues and we had to come and sort of like say, look, we're starting over again and it wasn't, it really wasn't easy, you know, because, I mean, especially the way we told everyone how we were breaking that band up, you know, there was a, Jim was getting married at the time. And for us, it was like we had been holding on to this like, no, there is a mental health issue. I understand it's probably a time to tell you this right now, you're getting married, but we're leaving, you know, like no one had our back in the band at the time. So it might seem really messed up that we're doing this at this opportunity. But for us, we're saving ourselves here and we have to say it now, or you're going to find out some other way and, you know, we'd rather be adults about it. So that was still there on the table when the band got back together for sure. You know, that kind of like untrustworthiness, you know, and the trauma

of how everyone experienced it all around. Yeah, it's a trauma thing. We're actually quite simple creatures. Yeah. And, you know, we store these things and, you know, I'm such a fan of therapy because it is the great unraveling of those things, you know what I mean? And especially when, you know, music is the reason that it happened. It's the magical shit that only happens when you all come together, whether it's Mars of Ulta or with a, you know, it's at the driver, and any of the projects you work on is the music, but the people who make it, we bring all of

that. Mm-hmm, we sure do. It sticks with you if you

never resolved it. And then you try to get in a room and say like, hey, let's try to do it again. Like you really, that was our original hometown gang. So we have to go back and be like, look, we don't hate each other. We have had issues. I think we can resolve them. And it was a lot harder than it seemed. And I think in trying to do that, I wasn't even aware of one of the biggest issues was between him and I really at the time, you know. So here I was trying to prepare and help repair these relationships and give advice and stuff. And I didn't have my personal shit together, which is really, I mean, he had his shit together a lot going through what he was going through. But it was almost like, I'm going to sound like a hippie now. It's like the universe is going, no, this is the time to try to repair this. And it wasn't easy. It was fun, and it was emotional, but it wasn't easy. You know, it's a lot of rock musicians are magnets for dysfunction, you know. And our therapy is the performance. And that's not always good therapy, you know. It's not always going to fix it. The primal scream therapy only works so much. Yeah, it's so true. You got to try the other avenues. You got to get to what happened to you as a kid. Yeah, you got to look, it's the

work. That's the thing. And that's what you said before we talked about parenthood, right? There's no, there is no replacement for the work. I remember when I sat down with my therapist, and it was obviously the worst place ever. I mean, the first time I had a therapist, and also when I sat down and I was just broken. And he said to me, you don't mind me sharing, do you? No, no, no, please. And he said to me, he said, what do you want? And I said, I just want to go back. Like I want to go back. Like I don't want to be here. Like can I just rewind and just go back to what it was when I had, well, it was conclueless. That was what was in front of me. Right? You know what I mean? And he said, you got, you got, I got good news. And I got bad news. The bad news is you're here. There you know going back. I'm really sorry, but this is it. Like starting lines only, you know what I mean? And he said, if you stick it out and if you trust the process and you let me can help you and you do the work, I'll never forget it. If you do the work, hard can work straight up guy, guy from the southern states of America, guy, old guy called Charlie, if you do the work, Zane, you'll come to the other side. And four years later, I was like at a point where I knew that I could actually start to rebuild. And it was like, it was a real time. There was no replacement for work. And you're right. Reuniting beloved rock bands is not work. It's not doing the work. It's a temporary distraction. Like, yay. One arm, scissor. Awesome.

Not everyone has the money to buy a life coach like Metallica does. And that's beautiful that they could do that. Because you know, and then they, you know, at the end, they end up not wanting to work with them anymore. And they're like, okay, we, we got a

little more. Can we just acknowledge that that's one of the greatest documentary movies of all the time? I would

say, I would say, I

would say, I would say delete that. I actually say that in my everyday life. And one time I was in Copenhagen on a bus after a YouTube show, we have a YouTube, our lazzers never far behind. And lazz was on the bus with his dad and his dad just went to get up and I looked at I was, I said, I'd be so proud of you. I said, I said, I would delete that. It's the most amazing reaction to music. I mean, if you ever going to be honest with someone you love, do it like that. Yeah, just straight into the point.

Like his dad's cool.

We've met that guy and

like he came to Volta shows. Do people love the Volta? What field loves the Volta?

Yeah, that we met them in New Zealand. They came to our show and they were like, are you going to play this song? We're like, no, we don't play that anymore. Sorry. And he's there. I'm like, I wish you played for him at least. Did you play it? No. And we didn't play. We were very stubborn about where we were. It was something from the first records who were like, we're here now. We understand people really love that, but we're very selfish like that. That's what he would have wanted. But it was cool to meet them. I was like, wow, I

was at one of their rehearsals once and they played that

song. They did how they rehearsed. Yeah, you know, they read the... What

did they play? You're talking about inertia? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know how they like rehearse or just jam before going on stage? They played at the stadium like in walking distance from my house when I lived in Mexico. So they live right? So they played right at the... They had a little decos? I think it was. Sorry, why not? I have that wrong. They're very particular about their... So I walked up there, got it and stuff and they invited me back there. And then I could just see them like whispering something and then they played inertia. Wow.

Crazy. With

laws? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was really cool. That's amazing.

With laws?

It was really cool. I mean, I felt honored just to be back there because that's their like private time before they go on stage and the fact that they felt that they invited me, yeah, to be in their space was really like felt really beautiful, you know, and just, you know, we all grew up with that stuff,

you know. It's the beauty of big day out bringing everyone together. Isn't it the best festival? Yeah.

No one touches that no more. Is there someone's got to do that traveling roadshow again? You have two, three days off. He's gone to like a boat in Sydney.

It's beautiful, man. And the festival people more than anything, right? Because they made it a point to like set it up so that you can like

spend time together. And the stages weren't gigantic. And it was like, you know, the crowd was we would man, we're good down there. We love music down there. And it was eclectic. I mean, I know things have gone more that way now, but before festivals were very much one type

of thing and big day out was ahead of the game on that of just having all sorts of different types of artists.

I saw you at a big dad in Auckland that year and you've leveled the place. I mean, you, I mean, at that moment in time for that incarnation of the band, it was like you guys were just in like on the hundred foot wave. I just felt like you were so. And that's nice. I was going to give it to my last impression. I could give you my last impression. So I was there when they were doing that movie. I came in to do some, some EPK work for that album that was being finished. I had no idea that they were doing a documentary. And they were like, Hey, do you mind if we have some cameras around here and there's a life coach over there and I met Phil and they only have met, Metallica only had two magazines in their, in their kitchen. One was fortune and the other one was spin. I was like, it's so perfect. It's so perfect. Do we read about money or do we read about competition? Which one do we read about?

They are on that episode of billions. Seriously. Exactly. Are they going? I don't really think that's that far off. No, it's not a critique on them or

anything. Of course not, bro. The back then that's where they are. Exactly. And they've changed now and I've met them many times since then and they are. They've done the work. They've done the work. They've done the work. They've done the work. They've done the work. The back then that was the start of the work and Hitfield would come in his dog would always roll in first and scope the place and then Hitfield would walk in. It was like clockwork. And I remember Phil asked me if I wanted a session with him. He's like, you know, I'm not just here for the band. I'm happy to sit down and talk through anything you're going on. I'm like, bro, I'm doing here. I've been here four days. I'm just waiting to talk to fucking Rob, you know, in that moment. And it's very different. I want to come back to this album and the way it's going to be, you know, created in front of a crowd and the whole tone. But when you're in that space, when Mars Volter in that space where it's all instinct at that point on stage and it's just all feel, what are you even conscious of if anything at all when I feel like your band is spiraling off into outer space from the crowd is what it feels like? How are you even conscious of it being a structured environment or are you just literally living for each moment, each note, each nuance of what you're all doing in that moment in time? What do you think to resolve itself? Is it being present? How is it the most recent thing in the world? Yeah. Yeah. When you were

saying, what do you, I think it's just you disappear into the other person, right? Into him and to whoever's drumming. It's like that you're so present and it's you're so in tune with it actually what's happening in real life and actually listening and not that's the only time it works by the way, right? It's like you can only go there if you're listening, if you're not thinking about what it is. You don't think about your thing. Yeah. Right. Yeah. If you're listening and you're just looking and absorbing and you're that present, then you just seem to absorb with that person. And once you absorb with those people, then you absorb into, you know, whatever all this is. It becomes. Yeah. Yes. And then it's just all the zone as they

say. It's the most it's the most prison you've you'll ever feel is in that moment. Yeah.

Yeah. It's like real life just happening. You know, on a whole just micro level, I guess, or something in a way that you could sort of decipher where real life could,

you know, become very complicated with all its news. And you want to say when you can then when you come back to real life, it almost must be like, that's why people who in let's why those great players go up all the time when they weren't on stage, right? That's why that's why bird that was like, I can't handle it. Yeah. Like when I'm playing, I'm fine. I'm not on me. I'm who I am when I'm not. I need it. Which goes back to that.

It goes back to that temptation of just like then because you understand that, then just do that all the time and forget about being a person. Yeah. But it doesn't work. Doesn't work. It'll catch up with you. Yeah. It'll come with you. Yeah. Or you die. Or you die. Right. Or you just be a person and be present in your real life and be present for other people and not only giving

your ability to be present for this. Be a coward. Yeah. Be a coward. Don't be afraid to be a coward. Right.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I've had that I've had that humble pie given to me at home. We don't we don't need the lead singer, the Mars Volto. We need

we need dad

right now. Yeah.

Real talk.

Yeah. And it makes you it's like boom. Like ego. You're right. What am I

thinking? That doesn't work for everything, you know, and because you constructed my density in order to protect who you really are. Guess who knows who you really are. The people who love you more than anything. Who who just love you no matter what. Yeah. And they're like, cool, you want to go and like put that cape on by means, but don't put it on here. Yeah, it doesn't work here. That is man, you're lucky. That's very lucky. We are all lucky to have that in our life. Some people don't make it that far. Yeah. The identity becomes the person. Yeah, exactly. That's what hit field was saying in the movie the whole time. And they got ripped for that film. I know. Right. We got destroyed. Talk about being ahead of the curve on mental health. It took the hardest man in rock to say it. Yep. Right. Seriously. It's the closest thing to John Wayne in the 21st century. And John Wayne came out and went, I don't really want to shoot you part and I'm having a mental health crisis. Yeah. Right. There's no way. I don't know what I'm feeling right now. I'm feeling conflicted. It's the one conflicted about taking your life right now. And you're fancy getting them the cold suds and discussing it. Right. And the whole generation of being like, well, we're from that generation. We would just internalize it. I'm like, yeah,

but why do you think it's going to like have we? Yeah, where's it going to go though? You don't want to be around when it comes out because that's

crazy. Just the organism that we have been gifted, the idea that our body is able to function with a mind and feel something that's attached to a soul to create something like this music in itself is like the greatest gift ever. You must recognize now more than ever with this band like how lucky you really

are. You just saw me cry. Yeah. It's, you know, and it's, it's just deeper than that. It's just deeper than it being a band. It's a family. Yeah, it's a friendship. This is a family. The reason why my mom says, you know, that's, you know, I don't think we look alike, but my mom's like, you look alike because we're, we're in each other's. We've melted into each other, you know, and it's beyond any of the people saying like, they're weird. They share shirts, you know, they blah, blah, blah. I think at the time, like when the, when the driving happened, the immediate critique was they are gay and on drugs. Say that nowadays. Say that. And nowadays, how far is it going to get you? Right. And it's

like, oh, it's a compliment. Like, yeah, yeah, like, what? That's two guys again on drugs. I love those guys. Yeah. No, for sure. It was always two bands that ban. It just was. It was you two and it was the other three. And I've got no other. I mean, I love Sparta and that whole thing and great can awesome. And when you're a band, it was great. And it actually was a beautiful thing. It was like quick and fast and to the point and out. Right. And the reunion was what it was. Love the show. Saw it. It felt like you were doing it for me actually. It sort of felt like a gift. It did. It felt like a gift in a strange way. But it was always two bands. And you know, like when Mars Volta came at like, I recognize that this was going to be the, what it was going to be. I didn't realize it was going to take the twists and the turns and the ups and the downs and the challenges and the triumphs. But it felt like you two were just, it felt like it was meant to be.

There is a way we've just always hung out with each other. And why we needed something like Mars Volta where the word no wasn't there.

You know, with all the justified things. Yeah.

With all due respect to those guys, because I love those guys even, even if for some people in that band, we might be a bit as strange, you know, like, I still have love for them. Like I still have have love for them. You know, should anything happen to any of those people? We're on good relations with some, not so much with others. But I, you know, I'd hate to hear if anything bad happening to them, you know, and that's reason why you have such strong reactions with each other because you're friends and you say the most uncomfortable because you kind of want each other to

grow. That's called experience. It's experience of a ego. Really, if you have the experiences, then no one can ever take them away from me, right? But when you, when you put it into the construct of like, breakdown on communication and how it affects me personally and what I think and how it makes my stomach churn and all that, that's all just

cerebral. That's a cool thing too. Yeah. That point about experience, it's like no matter if you're having falling out with them, like nothing changes the fact that they're, that they're part of your roots, right? That we experience this whole weird thing together about having a career and like being out there and growing up. I mean, we were 18. Like we became

adults sort of. That's what I mean. Opportunity is wasted on the youth. I mean, you know, it is, it's no other way that that band could have gone. Yeah. And that's why I think when you get back to this album and everyone's like, Oh man, you know, it's, it's not the drive from 2003. Giveself.

Okay. It's perfect miles of music for now. But that's such a nice perspective is because a lot of people don't have it. A lot of people remove the humanity part of it, right? Which is exactly what you're describing like, Oh yeah, there's this thing that came out of it that that I love and I've attached certain things to, but these are people and they do have a life and they do have families and they, they are feeling things. So, you know, it moves into this weird territory with, with the, um, how someone might enjoy something like you said, this album versus that album and sort of the fascism, you know, I mean, the artistic fascism that, yeah, that comes with that. Yeah. And like, you know, imagine like wanting to be free of that already in society as it is already as, as minorities, as queer as whatever. And then, and then to have it in high school and then to have it all around you and then your work and blah, blah. And then the go do art and think that you're free. And then all of a sudden have people come around you and be like, you should do this. And if you don't do that, you're it. How do you, you know, it's the same as like you're back in a point, you're back in high school and you're back around bullies and you're back around these fascists and you just have to make your, your own way of like, of dealing with it or of like pushing it out or, you know, or, or of

just fortifying yourself to where you just understand, well, that's their human experience that they feel. And if you lead with your vulnerability, it'll, it'll make them feel uncomfortable. And that's the job because it makes you reflect and or it'll make them reflect years from there going. That's what I was grappling with. And I put that on to you. And then, and then you reach

Tom York level.

Right. With

that guy was just like, I could give off what you want. It's only this way. Or there was nothing here for you to listen to. You know, and now we go back and listen to these albums that we're all scratching our heads about. And it's like, Oh, I'm like an easy X, my favorite hit. It's just so funny. How with catching up to the greats, you are that band too though. You are. Thank you. You've always done that. You've always pushed us in the right way. And you've done it again. It's, it's just beautiful man. Flashburns.

What a moment that is. Oh, thank you. Yeah, that's, that's one of my favorite ones. That's one where I would have fun when I'd get my CD of the finished product. I just kept playing that over and over. And, and I, my soul just had a smile going. I could dance to this forever. And that is a whole nother sort of inspiration, you know, not just the emotion of a lyric or something, but to hear a piece of music and go, I just want to get lost in this for hours and like a rave or something, you know, as, and then with black, light shines. I was about to tell. Yeah. When I first got that, like I jumped up in the air and I immediately started crying.