Finding Pivotal 'Fork in the Road' Moments

Chuck Todd sits down with journalist and historian Garrett Graff, host of The Long Shadow, to unpack how America’s political scandals—from Watergate to Trump—have shaped the presidency and public trust. Graff reflects on the slow process of uncovering the truth about Nixon’s 1968 interference and how those lessons apply to Trump’s open defiance of the Presidential Records Act. The two dive into why history takes decades to judge leaders, how government secrecy really works, and why even the most shocking revelations—like Iran-Contra or January 6th—take years to fully understand.

Graff also discusses the ripple effects of past scandals, from Monica Lewinsky’s mistreatment to the rise of political figures forged during the Clinton impeachment, and how the legacy of Trump may take a generation to contextualize. The conversation ends on the future of media itself—how O.J. Simpson changed television forever, how algorithms broke the internet, and what it means for truth in an age where everyone’s chasing clicks.

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Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Garrett Graff joins the Chuck ToddCast

02:00 Getting started with The Long Shadow podcast

03:00 The importance of going back and covering recent history

05:45 Looking at pivotal, fork in the road moments in history

09:15 It took 50 years to answer two central questions about Watergate

12:00 Extent of Nixon’s treachery in ‘68 wasn’t exposed until recently

13:15 Watergate led to destruction of White House taping system

15:00 Trump is actively skirting the Presidential Records Act

17:30 Mike Johnson excuses Trump’s corruption because it’s in the open

19:00 Thoughts on looking back into Iran Contra?

21:30 CIA afraid that copping to Oswald could unravel other bad actions?

23:15 History says that meddling in Venezuela will go extremely poorly

24:30 Government conspiracies presuppose limited competence

25:15 Government can keep big secrets briefly or small secrets a long time

28:00 Is there more to be covered on Monica Lewinsky & impeachment?

29:30 No greater victim in a scandal than Lewinsky, Clinton’s never apologized

32:00 Much of the Supreme Court got their start with Clinton impeachment

33:00 The view of presidents changes greatly over the decades

35:00 Judging past presidents relative to poor recent leaders

37:00 The politics of the author color presidential biographies

39:30 The historical telling of January 6th won’t be ripe until Trump dies

40:30 There are so many January 6th villains whose stories must be told

41:30 Chuck’s “Love/Hate” relationship with Roger Stone

42:30 The best way to interview a serial liar

44:00 The only good sources around Trump always remain anonymous

46:00 How worried are you about the future of American democracy?

46:45 We’re underestimating how bad things are 9 months into Trump

48:30 We’ll never be the country we were before Trump, but still reason for hope

49:30 Trump has a strong grip on a weak hand

51:15 Don’t know whether we’re in the beginning, middle or end of Trump story

52:30 Trump is too lazy to build a lasting movement

54:15 Democrats won’t admit that Trump voters aren’t wrong about some things

55:30 Democrats put asterisks next to elections they lost to Trump

58:30 Any interest in covering anything outside of politics?

59:30 OJ Simpson fundamentally changed the TV news business

1:02:15 Chasing ratings made the audience the editor for TV news

1:03:00 What Garrett is working on - Why algorithms broke the internet

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