Intro

Welcome to episode 86 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino discuss Thich Nhat Hanh’s calligraphic work ‘Are You Sure?’. Together, the presenters discuss how this simple question encourages us to examine our perceptions, assumptions, and certainties about ourselves and  the world around us as a path to greater understanding and well-being.

The conversation further explores the importance of cultivating an open, curious, and reflective mindset, rather than clinging to rigid beliefs or opinions; being present, listening deeply to ourselves and others; the value of community, friendship, and feedback in helping us to see our blind spots and to grow; the interplay between the historical and ultimate dimensions of life, and how holding multiple perspectives can allow us to respond with wisdom and compassion; and more. 

The episode concludes with a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu.

Enjoy! 

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Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/  

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

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List of resources

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing  

Koan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koan 

Cong Phu Journal – Everything You Need to Know About the Practice Notebook
https://plumvillage.app/cong-phu-journal-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-practice-notebook

Plum Village podcast: ‘With Each and Every Brushstroke: When Art and Meditation Come Together’
https://plumvillage.org/library/meditation/with-each-and-every-brushstroke-when-art-meditation-come-together

The Fourteen Mindfulness Trainings
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-14-mindfulness-trainings 

Sister Peace
https://www.sfzc.org/teachers/sister-peace 

Brother Phap Khoi
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-phap-khoi

The Way Out Is In: ‘Shining Light (Episode #63)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/shining-light-episode-63  

The Way Out Is In: ‘Bringing the Ultimate Dimension Down to Earth (Episode #40)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/bringing-the-ultimate-dimension-down-to-earth-episode-40 

Joanna Macy
https://www.joannamacy.net/ 

The Way Out Is In: ‘Active Hope: The Wisdom of Joanna Macy (Episode #25)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/active-hope-the-wisdom-of-joanna-macy-episode-25 

The Way Out Is In: ‘Grief and Joy on a Planet in Crisis: Joanna Macy on the Best Time to Be Alive (Episode #12)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/grief-and-joy-on-a-planet-in-crisis-joanna-macy-on-the-best-time-to-be-alive-episode-12 

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Quotes

“‘Are you sure?’ is a question that directs towards our mind consciousness and particularly towards our perceptions. So we are always creating perceptions, from what we see, what we hear, what we have observed. And a lot of the time we believe our perceptions. And because of our habitual energy of self, there is pride connected to it, there is certainty connected to it, and there is a righteous energy that we all carry in our way of being.” 

“The Buddha would say that 98% of our perceptions are wrong. And the other two percent should be our way of double-checking.”

“Reflecting is double-checking. It is to look more deeply, to see the roots, the source of the perception that we have created. This is an ongoing practice. In some of our locations in the monastery, we have ‘Are you sure?’ literally framed, because a lot of the time we can be very sure about our own self, about our own practice, about our own growth, and even about our own insight.” 

“The perception about Zen is that you reach enlightenment and then you’re done. But enlightenment is always enlightenment of something. And that enlightenment is a kind of understanding. And understanding is very organic. It has to be alive. It’s adaptive to the suffering of our times, the happiness of our times, the well-being of our times. So our looking deeply should always contain a question like, ‘Are we certain?’, ‘Are we sure?’”

“We’re living in a world with huge levels of uncertainty. We’ve got the sudden exponential growth of AI. We’ve got so much uncertainty in terms of economics, in terms of politics, in terms of climate change. There’s so much where we don’t know. And often people want to look for certainty when there’s uncertainty. They feel they need to find a grounding, because if they don’t feel grounded, then they can be overwhelmed and washed away. Let’s get back to some basics here: being certain is not really a good foundation – but Buddhism offers some very good foundations for living with uncertainty.”

“I feel confidence when I want to show up with my full presence, but I don’t want to be so certain because then I’m not going to be able to listen. And as we know, and as our training shows, listening is already a communication.”

“Don’t believe everything I say; believe what you put into practice.” 

“None of us will escape suffering. But if you know how to care for it, and you know how to tend to your suffering, you can grow the lotus out of the mud.” 

“We can’t reflect in a hurry.”

“In 2025, with the uncertainties and the fast pace of our society, I think it’s crucial that we see the importance of stillness, the importance of allowing our understanding to ripen.”

“Zen is to learn to stop. It’s the first wing of meditation, it’s learning to give yourself the space and the time and the ability to pause.” 

“There are so many moments when we’re going to find ourselves sitting. So how can that moment translate from being still in our corner, in our home, to the engagement of our life with everything that we do?” 

“Wherever there is darkness, light will appear. Wherever there is light, darkness will also be there.”

“The Buddha has taught us that every action we take – whether it’s thought, speech, or bodily action – bears our signature. And we will receive the consequences of all of our actions.” 

“A breath is very spiritual because it allows us to be in touch with the whole cosmos. That is a very spiritual moment of interconnectedness.”