Is the Father Apathetic Towards the Son on the Cross?

Jen Wilkin, JT English, and Kyle Worley answer questions submitted from their patron supporters! To learn more and become a patron visit patreon.com/knowingfaith.

Questions Covered in This Episode:

• “Do you have recommendations for books/podcasts/resources/etc for doing something similar but age appropriate for older kids?”
• “Is the language about God being Father & Son literal or figurative or both?”
• “Are we ever at risk of reading too much into parallels, types, significant numbers etc. and drawing conclusions that weren’t intended as we attempt to comprehend and interpret on our own?”
• “Why do you think that in the New Creation there will be no darkness (Rev. 21:22-25) yet in the first creation, before there was sin, God created darkness and light? 1 Jn 1:5 says there is no darkness in God, but why then did God create night in the first place?”
• “Regarding Gen 3:24. What happened to the garden, the cherubim & flaming sword after Adam and Eve left? What happened to the tree of life or tree of knowledge of good & evil?”
• “What is a theological belief or tradition that you used to hold too firmly but changed your mind (or at least you are no longer as confident in)?”
• “I’ve been wrestling with postmillennialism, amillennialism, and premillennialism eschatology and have been leaning towards post. I know it’s not an essential of our faith but I was wondering what you guys can comment on this and any good resources as well.”
• “Are you ever worried about how much influence you are having through the podcast?”
• “Is justification by faith alone a first-tier ("essentials") issue in your view? It seems that many evangelicals do think so, but if so, how does that affect how we view people in church history like Thomas Aquinas, if this doctrine is an "essential" belief to be saved?”
• “Is there a resource that charitably explains what different Christian denominations believe?”
• “What is one of your favorite things about your fellow cohosts/friends/frohosts? How do they encourage you?”
• “Is the Son the only person of the Trinity we see "embodied" (I'm not even sure if it's ok to use that word in relation to the Trinity at this point) in the scriptures or do we see the Father and the Spirit take on a form? For example, is the one Isaiah sees on the throne in Isaiah 6 the Son? The Father? The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Outside of the incarnation, how do we apply good Trinitarian theology to moments when we see God taking on "embodied" forms like in Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Revelation or more general forms like the burning bush, pillar of cloud and fire, etc.?”
• “I only recently came to understand that the resurrection of Jesus Christ actually changes my reality now (on this side of eternity). How should we think about the transformative power of the resurrection as it relates to the topic of besetting sins?”
• “Is it important that Adam was a historical figure? If so, why?”
• “Each of y’all’s simple tips for studying scripture on your own.”
• “Historically God has always had masculine pronouns but recently I’ve noticed gender-neutral pronouns are being used more often (particularly in scholarly writings). Is our understanding of God as masculine or gender-neutral an important aspect of our relationship with God? How does that impact our view of men and women being made in the image of God?”
• “When reading Acts, it seems like the apostles go out of their way to lay hands on new converts and ensure they are specifically filled/baptized with the Holy Spirit in a way that causes them to prophecy, speak in tongues, etc. This seems like an additional step, not synonymous with water baptism. The apostles didn’t seem to think that we are filled upon conversion, but rather manually through specific prayer. As believers today, are we missing something? Should we be doing this after we baptize someone? Am I lacking the Spirit if I haven’t been converted with this procedure?”
• “In Isaiah 9:6 Jesus Christ, the Son is referred to both as Son and as Everlasting Father...How does this work out in the Trinitarian community? Is there a lending of their titles? ‘For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.’”
• “In the OT, the Angel of the Lord is often a Christophany. In Matthew 1:20 is this also a Christophany?“
• “How should Protestants read the early fathers if their leanings are more Catholic (the church)?  Should we ignore their beliefs on Mary or communion?”
• “References are made to the gift of tongues throughout the NT. There seem to be two types, one of which is speaking a known language, and the other which is a bit less clear - some sort of tongues of angels or heavenly language. Paul says in Corinthians not to forbid tongues. Why is this not commonly exercised in our circles? Are we missing out on some sort of joyous fellowship with the Spirit by not pursuing this, at least in personal prayer, if not in community with other saints?”
• “Can you give a run through of some of the differences between dispensationalism and covenant theology. Are they in direct conflict with one another or can they be harmonized?”
• “Lately I’ve had real difficulty accepting an impassible view of God, especially when considering the suffering of Jesus on the cross. It is hard for me to think that the Father, so intimately united with the Son, did not also suffer out of compassion for him. Did God feel nothing as he watched his son die? The last thing I gather from the incarnation/crucifixion is that the Father is apathetic, so my understanding of impassibility must be off. But I don’t understand how God who is capable of love could be incapable of suffering or emotion, and I would love to hear y’all’s thoughts.”
• “Per Scripture, is baptism presented as being a part of salvation? Or, put another way, is baptism when your sins are forgiven?”
• “Thanks for the JL Packer essay - Early in the essay Packer defines "Unconditional election" as God's free, sovereign, unconditional choice for sinners, as sinners to be redeemed.  He then goes on to define "Limited atonement" as "The redeeming work of Christ had as its end and goal the salvation of the elect."  Is there any easy way to understand how this can be a free choice for sinners and yet you are also elect?”
• “What advice would you give your 25-year-old self or a 25-year old Patron with a desire to pastor?“
• “What would your recommendation be regarding the use of outside curriculum in your church classes/studies? How would you balance using outside resources as opposed to training up your own teachers and developing your own materials?”
• “Why does it say in Romans 5:15 “many” died by the trespass of [Adam], versus everyone/all? Don’t we all experience death and it’s only through faith & allegiance to Christ that we can be born and experience true life again? Interestingly, almost all main translations have “the many.”
• “What book of the Bible do you think you’ve read/reread the most and what is it about that book that keeps drawing you back?”
• “Do you all reject or affirm the concept of “autotheos”? Currently reading Arminian Theology by Roger Olson in order to have a more well rounded understanding.”
• Where do you think the line is for having a proper place of spiritual authority?
• “I am wondering all y'all's thoughts on the movement of evangelicals to embrace "Torah Observance" and return to keeping the OT law. In discussing this with a friend who is being drawn to this new (old) way of life, my thoughts have been on Paul's comments about the Law in Romans. She brought up 2 Peter 3:16-17 and Peter's comments about Paul's teaching being misunderstood and misapplied leading to "lawlessness." I'd love to hear your thoughts! “
• “If we are continually be interceded for by God the Son (Jesus), are those who were spoken to by God in the Old Testament being spoken to from God the Son, or God the Father? The New Testament seems to suggest that we only have access to the Father through the Son, but I often hear people talk about God’s words spoken to the prophets as coming from God the Father. How should we think about the trinitys function in the Old Testament, specifically concerning God speaking to men?“
• What recommendations or resources can you suggest to help women who want to grow their skills leading small group discussion?

Helpful Definitions:

• Eternally Begotten: The Son’s unique attribute in relation to the Father and the Spirit: the Son is sourced in the Father, but there was never a time when the Son began. All things are from the Father, through the Son and by the Spirit.
• Eternally Unbegotten: The Father is without origin (never been born, made, or created) and He is the fount of divinity.
• Archetypal Knowledge: Knowledge of God that God himself only possesses; true and full.
• Ectypal Knowledge: Our knowledge of God is true but not full because of our finitude.
• Chiasm: Is a literary technique that has bookend statements that work their way inward.
• Christophany: An appearance of the Son of God before the incarnation.
• The resurrection power of Christ means that we have been delivered from the penalty of sin. The resurrection power of Christ means that we are currently being delivered from sin’s power and the resurrection power of Christ means one day we will be delivered from sin's presence.
• Autotheos: Self existence of God.

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• Revelation 21:22-25, 1 John 1:5, Genesis 2:3, Genesis 3:24, 1 John 2:1, Isaiah 9:6, John 10:30, Matthew 1:20, Romans 5:15, John 13-17, Hebrews 1, John 15:26
• patreon.com/knowingfaith
• The Bible Project
• “A Case for Amillennialism” by Kim Riddlebarger
• “Postmillennialism” By Keith A. Mathison
• Knowing Faith Acts Episodes
• “Kingdom Through Covenant: A Biblical-Theological Understanding of the Covenants” by Peter J. Gentry and Stephen J. Wellum
• “God's Kingdom through God's Covenants: A Concise Biblical Theology” by Peter J. Gentry and Stephen J. Wellum
• “The New “New Orthodoxy”: Only The Impassable God Can Help” by Wesley Hill
• “The Impassable God of the Bible: Replying to Some Objections” by Wesley Hill
• J. I. Packer’s Famous Essay on Christ’s Death
• “Calvin, Classical Trinitarianism, and the Aseity of the Son” by Tyler R. Wittman
• “Iron Sharpens Iron: Leading Bible–Oriented Small Groups that Thrive” by Orlando Saer

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Editing and support by The Good Podcast Co.