Lisa Ochle's book is called Escaping the maze of spiritual abuse. She and her co author have not only researched spiritual abuse, but they've researched the inverse So Christian communities that are robust against spiritual abuse and that are promoting thriving And so they have a list of principles that they've found through that research. The best place to go for people who have any sort of lever of power With an institution is to find that list of the healthy things that these communities are doing and try and implement those All right. Well, Dan. Thank you so much for taking us through a very important complex and painful Topic,. really appreciate this we end uh new guests Uh who come on the good