The Dangers of Virtue Signaling in Politics

Chuck Todd reflects on the aftermath of Charlie Kirk’s assassination and what it reveals about America’s dangerously fractured politics. He explores how social media algorithms, outrage media, and polarized incentive structures are fueling political violence, with 150 politically motivated attacks already in 2025. From the dangers of cancel culture to the unwillingness of both parties to police their own extremes, Chuck argues that disagreements must stop being treated as existential threats if democracy is to function. He also considers the role of leaders like Spencer Cox, the failures of Biden and Trump to unify, and why regulating big tech and breaking out of ideological silos may be the clearest path back to a healthier, more honest political discourse.

Then, former U.S. Ambassador and Reagan White House veteran Frank Lavin joins to reflect on the state of American politics and what lessons might be drawn from Ronald Reagan’s presidency. From Reagan’s approach to bipartisanship and his handling of foreign policy, to Trump’s transactional style and fixation on deference, Lavin weighs in on how today’s leaders measure up against the conservative legacy of the past. He explores what governing responsibly looks like in a narrowly divided nation and why Reagan’s emphasis on free trade and coalition-building still matters.

The conversation stretches from historical “what ifs”—like whether Reagan would have risen without Ford’s pardon of Nixon—to the present-day challenges of Ukraine, China, and the role of U.S. alliances in Asia. Lavin also tackles questions of Trump’s political lineage, whether there’s an heir to Trumpism, and how both parties are struggling with trade, borders, and identity. With insights from inside the Reagan administration and a sharp eye on today’s divisions, Lavin offers a wide-angle view on conservatism, leadership, and what the future of American politics might hold.

Finally, on “This week in history” Chuck remembers Washington’s farewell address and why it perfectly meets the current moment in U.S. politics, answer questions in the “Ask Chuck” segment and gives his week 3 college football roundup.

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Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Introduction

0015: It’s been a tough past five days since Kirk assassination

01:00 The system is rigged for division and against unity

05:45 There are ways to mitigate the risk of political violence, but it takes will

06:45 We’re most unified when there’s an external, existential threat

07:45 Threats from the inside only divide us

08:15 America has experienced 150 politically motivated attacks in 2025

09:30 College should be about exposure to new ideas, both good and bad

10:45 Social media playing a huge role in every political assassination attempt

12:00 Each side is convinced that violence is only coming from the other side

13:30 Politics is supposed to be about meeting somewhere in the middle

14:45 People on the left should now have a better sense of cancel culture

17:00 Policy disagreements can’t be seen as existential threats

18:00 Online discourse is so much more toxic than in-person

19:30 Social media platforms are the problem with their rage drive algorithms

21:00 Trump views this as a political moment to exploit

21:45 Trump doesn’t view that he’s been a contributor to this political climate

22:45 Politics of division has been good politics for Trump, bad for country

24:00 Incentive structures are what matter most for a healthy politics

26:00 Both parties aren’t comfortable policing their own side

27:30 Neither side is incentivized to do the right thing

28:45 On the right, the agitators are in charge

30:15 Spencer Cox might be exactly the type of leader America needs

30:45 Biden didn’t bring the country together, legislated for his base

32:30 Our political discourse radicalized the gunman

34:00 The biggest, most obvious fix is regulating big tech

35:30 We need a media that accommodates multiple ideologies

38:30 Our information silos create a lack of shared reality

40:45 Outrage media creates a loyal audience but isn’t always honest

42:45 Trying to make the ToddCast a truthful, neutral arbiter

45:15 Frank Lavin joins the Chuck ToddCast 

48:30 Where are we as a country and how would Reagan have handled it? 

49:45 Social media rewards audacity and "nutpicking" 

51:00 We haven't hit bottom yet 

54:00 What would Reagan have done with full control of congress? 

55:15 What is the responsibility of a 51-49 winner to the 49?

 56:15 The problem with only governing for your base 

57:30 Leaders should actively pursue their agenda despite opposition 

58:45 Clinton and Reagan had to accommodate the other side 

59:30 People like the idea of Trump more than him actually being president 

1:00:45 If Ford doesn't pardon Nixon, does Reagan win the primary? 

1:03:45 Is a political/DC outsider best positioned to win in 2028? 

1:05:30 Reagan would be pushing back on Putin in Ukraine 

1:06:30 Our weakness on Ukraine will motivate China on Taiwan 

1:07:15 Obama's lack of action on Crimea green lit Putin on Ukraine 

1:08:15 How do our Asian allies change their behavior without US security? 

1:09:15 Asian countries will have to accommodate China 

1:10:15 Hosting US military base didn't prevent strike on Qatar 

1:12:00 Is Trump an heir to the Reagan lineage? 

1:13:00 Reagan was for free trade, Trump is not 

1:14:15 Trump's premise that free trade hurts us is faulty 

1:15:30 How often did you get time with Reagan as a staffer? 

1:17:45 Reagan was dedicated to getting George Bush elected 

1:19:45 Trump isn't foreign policy oriented, he's transactional 

1:20:45 Trump has a 19th century style of foreign policy 

1:23:00 Trump cares more about deference than achieving policy goals 

1:23:45 Is Trump's Republican party similar to the 1920's GOP? 

1:25:30 Democrats have been mixed messengers on free trade 

1:26:15 Sherrod Brown is an "old" politician, been in politics forever 

1:27:30 Should Democrats embrace Trump's border policy 

1:28:45 Obama likely benefitted from the "deporter in-chief" protests 

1:31:00 What is the definition of traditional conservatism? 

1:32:00 What could Romney/Ryan done better to prevent Trumpism? 

1:33:00 Nobody permanently shifts US politics 

1:34:15 Trump won on culture and by not going after entitlements 

1:36:00 Cutting postal service is a place to cut spending 

1:37:00 There's little political reward for incrementalism 

1:37:30 Trump isn't a conservative, but rejects the left 

1:39:15 Trump's anti-crime policies are deliberately offensive 

1:40:15 George H.W. Bush didn't have communications skills like Reagan 

1:41:15 Is there an heir to Trump? 

1:44:15 The joy of teaching at USC

1:49:30 Chuck's thoughts on interview with Frank Lavin 

1:50:45 This week in history - George Washington's farewell address 

1:51:15 Washington warned against political parties and factionalism 

1:52:30 Washington preached unity above all else 

1:55:00 Washington warned against dominating factions/partisanship 

1:56:30 He argued to follow the Constitution and fiscal responsibility 

1:57:30 He preached morality 

1:59:00 He argued for peace and alliances 

2:01:00 Ask Chuck 

2:01:15 Thoughts on a James Talarico/Jeff Jackson ticket in 2028? 

2:09:00 How can media interviewers produce better interviews? 

2:13:30 How does Arkansas have such an outsized role in national politics? 

2:16:30 College football needs to collectively negotiate their TV contracts 

2:18:30 Week 3 college football roundup

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