In energy policy circles, the word “resilience” often refers to future-proof systems or infrastructure designed for the transition away from fossil fuels. But resilience means something different to the communities that have been built on those conventional energy sources.

Without a policy strategy, communities whose economies are dependent on fossil fuels aren’t well positioned to thrive in – or perhaps even survive – a clean energy transition.

So how can economic resilience improve livelihoods in fossil fuel dependent communities? Are the near-term risks and economic impacts these communities face underappreciated? And what does this all mean in today’s political environment?

This week host Bill Loveless talks to Emily Grubert and Noah Kaufman, two scholars at the Resilient Energy Economies initiative, a collaboration between the Bezos Earth Fund, Resources for the Future, and the Center on Global Energy Policy at Columbia University SIPA.

Emily is a civil engineer and environmental sociologist. She is an associate professor of sustainable energy policy in the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. She also worked in the Office of Fossil Energy and Carbon Management at the Department of Energy under the Biden administration.

Noah is an economist who has worked on energy and climate change policy. He is a research scholar at the Center on Global Energy Policy. He also served as a senior economist at the Council of Economic Advisers under President Biden and as the deputy associate director of energy and climate change at the White House Council on Environmental Quality under President Obama.

Credits: Hosted by Jason Bordoff and Bill Loveless. Produced by Erin Hardick, Mary Catherine O’Connor, Caroline Pitman, and Kyu Lee. Engineering by Sean Marquand. Stephen Lacey is executive producer.

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