Today's guest: Julie Zhuo, Former VP of Product Design at Facebook, Wall Street Journal bestselling author of "The Making of a Manager," and now AI product leader at Sundial
"Is the product designer role going to exist in 10 years? Is the product manager role going to exist in 10 years?"
That's Julie Zhuo asking the existential questions every product leader is thinking but afraid to voice.
Julie spent 13 years at Facebook, starting as an IC designer and rising to VP of Product Design. She wrote the Wall Street Journal bestseller "The Making of a Manager." Today, she's building AI products at Sundial and working with companies like OpenAI.
In our conversation, she breaks down:
* How AI is killing traditional product roles
* The timeless management principles that still matter
* What makes a great AI product leader
* How to build product taste when AI gets better than you
This isn't just about adapting to new tools. It's about reimagining what product development looks like when one person can do what used to take a whole team.
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Check out the conversation on Apple, Spotify and YouTube.
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Timestamps
00:00 Intro
02:30 The Death of Product Development
08:42 Learn The Craft
15:02 ADS
17:00 Definition of a Managers's Job
21:12 Julie's Thoughts on AI Agents
28:12 Blindspots While switching from IC to Manger
30:40 ADS
35:48 The Three Levers That Never Change
41:20 What is Feedback
46:43 How AI is Changing the Domain
52:49 What Makes Great AI Product Leaders Different
1:00:55 Essential AI Tools Every Leader Should Master
1:09:15 Lessons from OpenAI's Product Team
1:15:55 Outro
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Key Takeaways
1. Stop Thinking in Roles, Start Thinking Skills. The future belongs to builders who combine unique strengths with AI capabilities, not people attached to traditional job titles like PM or designer.
2. Taste Becomes the Critical Differentiator. When AI can do many things well, your ability to recognize exceptional work versus average output becomes your most valuable skill.
3. The Three Management Levers Still Apply. People, process, and purpose remain the core levers. AI agents just add new tools within the "people" lever you need to manage.
4. Face Reality to Build Trust. Create environments where teams can confront what's really happening. Thank messengers who bring problems instead of shooting them.
5. Conviction + Humility Balance. Have strong conviction in your process and vision, but stay humble enough to accept feedback and iterate based on what you learn.
6. Be a Beginner Again. Even experienced product leaders need to earn their stripes in the AI era. The willingness to learn matters more than past success.
7. Lead Through Experimentation. This isn't a playbook era. Try new team structures, new workflows, new approaches. Nobody has all the answers yet.
8. Master AI Tools in Your Workflow. Don't just use ChatGPT occasionally. Actively disrupt your old systems and use AI throughout your daily work processes.
9. Learn from OpenAI's Approach. They work seven days a week, obsess over understanding user behavior data, and maintain rigorous weekly metrics reviews for alignment.
10. Focus on What Remains Human. The joy of creation, learning processes, and meaning we derive from building things we're proud of can't be automated away.
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Related Content
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Newsletters:
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How to Write a Killer AI Product Manager Resume
How to Become an AI Product Manager with No Experience
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