Ask any martial artist: It’s not just where a person strikes you but your stance that matters. The amplitude and angle of a blow is one thing but how you can absorb and/or deflect it makes the difference. The same is true in any evolutionary system. Most people seem to know “the butterfly effect” where tiny changes lead to large results, but the inverse also works: complex organisms buffer their development against adverse mutations so that tiny changes cannot redirect the growth of limbs and other organs. It takes a lot to shake the pattern of five fingers on a hand, or five toes on a paw. This is robustness: how much change can something soak up before it transforms? The question leads us into a secret garden of cryptic variation: mutations waiting for their moment, pieces sitting in place that might suddenly and radically metamorphose in changing circumstances. It’s why evolution stutters, halts and leaps, and maybe it can help us think about society and mind in ways that deepen comprehension of the tangled and surprising forces playing out at all scales, in society and in ecology. For quests as deep as these, we need to wear new lenses and train inquiries stereoscopically. How can and do the sciences and the humanities inform each other as we keep evolving — not just biologically, but culturally? Can we triangulate the truth by holding theories side by side and looking through them all together?

Welcome to COMPLEXITY, the official podcast of the Santa Fe Institute. I’m your host, Michael Garfield, and every other week we’ll bring you with us for far-ranging conversations with our worldwide network of rigorous researchers developing new frameworks to explain the deepest mysteries of the universe.

This week, we speak with Aviv Bergman (Google Scholar), External Professor of the Santa Fe Institute and Director of the new Albert Einstein Institute for Advanced Study in the Life Sciences.

Be sure to check out our extensive show notes with links to all our references at complexity.simplecast.com. Note that our applications for SFI postdoctoral fellowships open on August 1st! Tell a friend.

If you value our research and communication efforts, please subscribe, rate and review us at Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and consider making a donation — or finding other ways to engage with us — at santafe.edu/engage.

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Podcast theme music by Mitch Mignano.

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Mentioned Papers:

Waddington’s canalization revisited: Developmental stability and evolution
Mark L. Siegal & Aviv Bergman

Evolutionary capacitance as a general feature of complex gene networks
Aviv Bergman & Mark L. Siegal

Phenotypic Pliancy and the Breakdown of Epigenetic Polycomb Mechanisms
Maryl Lambros, Yehonatan Sella, Aviv Bergman

Mammalian Endothermy Optimally Restricts Fungi and Metabolic Costs
Aviv Bergman & Arturo Casadevall

How on Earth can Aliens Survive? Concept and Case Study
Aviv Bergman’s 2022 SFI Seminar

Additional Mentioned Podcasts, Videos, & Writing:

Melanie Mitchell on Artificial Intelligence: What We Still Don't Know

On Coronavirus, Crisis, and Creative Opportunity with David Krakauer (Transmission Series Ep. 3)

Ricardo Hausmann & J. Doyne Farmer on Evolving Technologies & Market Ecologies (EPE 03)

Olivia Judson on Major Energy Transitions in Evolutionary History

James Evans on Social Computing and Diversity by Design

Mirta Galesic on Social Learning & Decision-making

What Determines The Complexity of Writing Systems?
on the work of SFI Fellow Helena Miton

Does the Ecology of Somatic Tissue Normally Constrain the Evolution of Cancer?
SFI Seminar by External Professor John Pepper

Explosive Proofs of Mathematical Truths
SFI Seminar by External Professor Simon DeDeo

Armchair Science
by 2022 SFI Journalism Fellow Dan Falk at Aeon Magazine

The coming battle for the COVID-19 narrative
Samuel Bowles, Wendy Carlin 10 April 2020

Ignorance, Failure, Uncertainty, and the Optimism of Science
Stuart Firestein’s 2022 SFI Community Lecture

Smarter Parts Make Collective Systems Too Stubborn
Jordana Cepelewicz at Aeon Magazine

"Ancestral forms are very different, but as you increase regulatory interactions is decreasing the space of the possible. You can think of bureaucracy..."
- SFI President David Krakauer on #DevoBias2018