Ladder Down: Simple Rungs to Persuade

What happens when your entire business gets destroyed in 3 days? Jay Acunzo, storytelling expert and former head of content at HubSpot, shares the messy reality of reinvention and how he discovered his most defensible advantages. We explore why people follow you for YOU (not your content), the psychology behind authentic storytelling vs. performance, and Jay's frameworks for escaping the "commodity cage"—including why you should focus on being their favorite instead of being the best. Plus: the simple 4-part story structure that actually works and how to "ladder down" your ideas to create deeper connections.

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CONNECT WITH JAY:

https://jayacunzo.com/

https://linkedin.com/in/jayacunzo

https://jayacunzo.com/newsletter

Check out Jay's podcast, "How Stories Happen" wherever you get your podcasts

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• Getting "punched in the mouth" by unexpected events often forces necessary reinvention that turns five-year plans into 30-day survival plans
• Ask yourself "What am I the best at doing in a room of 100 people?" to find clarity about your unique strengths and defensible advantages
• The messy, unglamorous parts of reinvention are where you actually find your best ideas and truest self
• People don't follow you for your content—they follow you for you, which means your imperfections are often what create the strongest connections
• Use "tactical vulnerability"—share imperfect, human aspects of your story that are relevant for building connection or illustrating a point
• Stories need four building blocks: status quo, tension, turning point, and resolution (remember the itsy bitsy spider)
• Don't just share expertise—escape the "commodity cage" by developing a unique premise or perspective
• "Don't market more, matter more"—focus on resonance (how much people care) over reach (how many people see it)
• "Don't be the best, be their favorite"—people make emotional choices and rationalize them later
• Move from being an expert who shares information to an explorer who asks questions and launches investigations
• "Ladder down" your ideas: start with an easy reframe, then your core premise, then the best-case outcome
• Bringing conviction to your ideas and learning to package them effectively creates a defensible position in a noisy world

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TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 Why Jay decided to dedicate this chapter of his life to storytelling and speaking

09:00 How Jay reinvented his business after everything burned to the ground

14:57 The emotional toll of pivoting your business

18:20 How to find your best ideas to share

21:41 The trap of being a meta-creator

23:43 Being an expert vs. an explorer

26:30 Imperfection and building a connection with your audience

33:25 AI and the Milli Vanilli Effect

37:54 Being authentic vs being performative

49:38 The truth about what makes a great story

52:34 The biggest mental block holding you back from becoming a great storyteller

55:32 The secret to incredible storytelling/the secret to guarantee people remember your ideas

1:01:30 How to take your public speaking and storytelling skills to the next level

1:04:30 Parting words

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SOCIAL LINKS:

Website: https://coreywilkspsyd.com/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@coreywilkspsyd

Substack: https://substack.com/@coreywilkspsyd

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coreywilkspsyd/

Twitter: https://x.com/CoreyWilksPsyD

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/coreywilkspsyd/

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Disclaimers: The content provided is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. Nothing here constitutes personal or professional consultation, treatment, diagnosis, or creates a professional-client relationship.