i had this conversation, as probably within a couple of months of starting this file, with a deputy chief of police in a in a canadian city. He happened to just throw out this thought experiment that than i immediately said, aha. And so there's a kind of maddening ambiguity about this up stream work and it's difficult to establish he did you accomplish anything? If so, how can you prove itd and who exactly did you help? It's very, very different from downstream workin a fishing kids out of a river is very tangible and leads itself easily to er heroicism In a way that upstream work doesn't.

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