What Changed in AI in 2025

Jeffrey Katzenberg & ChenLi Wang join Sourcery for a deep, candid conversation on how WndrCo was built, and how they think about investing, company-building, and storytelling in the age of AI.

Katzenberg reflects on his third act after Disney & DreamWorks, tracing a lifelong pattern of using technology as a competitive advantage for storytelling. ChenLi shares how scaling Dropbox shaped his views on product craft, distribution, and why benchmarks often fail to capture what actually makes great companies.

Together, they break down WndrCo’s hybrid model spanning builds, venture, and seed investing, and discuss how that framework has led them to back category-defining companies including 1Password, Airtable, Harvey, Abridge, Granola, and Deel — as well as internally built platforms across consumer security, health, and the future of work.

They unpack why WndrCo sometimes chooses to build companies from scratch rather than invest, how they deploy capital across stages, and why real differentiation today comes from product obsession, storytelling, and hands-on operating support, not capital alone.

The conversation also dives into the state of venture capital, the coming AI reckoning, what happens after $700B+ in hyperscaler capex, and why only companies delivering visible ROI and real adoption will survive the next cycle.

Jeffrey Katzenberg: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffrey-katzenberg-4b3b47123/

Molly O’Shea: https://x.com/MollySOShea 

Sourcery: ⁠https://x.com/sourceryy

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YouTube: https://youtu.be/8ZpodkQ0rn8

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• Brex—The modern finance platform, combining the world’s smartest corporate card with integrated expense management, banking, bill pay, & travel. https://brex.com/sourcery

• Turing—Turing delivers top-tier talent, data, and tools to help AI labs improve model performance—and enables enterprises to turn those models into powerful, production-ready systems. https://turing.com/sourcery

• Deel—Deel is the global people platform that helps startups hire, manage, pay, and equip anyone, anywhere. Trusted by more than 35,000 fast-growing companies, Deel is the people platform that just works, so teams can scale without the chaos. Visit: https://www.deel.com/sourcery

• Public–Investing platform Public just launched Generated Assets, which lets you turn any idea into an investable index with AI. With Generated Assets, you can build, backtest, refine, and invest in any thesis with AI. Gone are the days of one-size-fits-all ETFs. https://public.com/sourcery

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Disclosure

Paid Endorsement. Brokerage services by Open to the Public Investing Inc, member FINRA & SIPC. Advisory services by Public Advisors LLC, SEC-registered adviser. Crypto trading provided by Zero Hash LLC, licensed by the NYSDFS. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool by Public Advisors. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. See disclosures at public.com/disclosures/ga. Matched funds must remain in your account for at least 5 years. Match rate and other terms are subject to change at any time.

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(00:00) Welcome to Sourcery at WndrCo

(01:43) What Actually Changed in AI in 2025

(03:26) When AI Hype Meets Real Productivity

(05:01) Is an AI Bubble About to Burst?

(05:59) Companies WndrCo Is Most Excited About

(09:02) The Origin Story of WndrCo

(09:45) Technology as a Storytelling Advantage

(12:55) Why Katzenberg Chose Venture as a Third Act

(17:12) From Holding Company to Venture Platform

(18:56) How WndrCo Decides to Build vs Invest

(22:29) Why Longevity Became a New Build Theme

(26:33) "Good Storytelling, Bad Outcomes"

(29:57) What Actually Differentiates WndrCo as an Investor

(35:57) Why Benchmarks Fail in the AI Era

(40:16) How WndrCo Invests: Build, Venture, Seed