Can We Simulate or Model Down Top Causation?

Mark o'brien and I have been arguing on twitter for a couple of years. He asked if we could simulate or model down top causation, how is this not deterministic? And i'm puzzled by the suggestion that that would make it determable. simulation is often most valuable and useful in connection with systems that are thought to be indeter Orchestrated. But chaotic and indetericable are different things. You can get all kinds of complexity from deter microscopic mechanism. Chaotic may be practically indetergetic in the sense that's no way you can predict it. That's not the same as saying that's not generated by a deter predetermined mechanism.