Democracy and Liberalism Don't Go Together Naturally

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David Frum: Democracy and liberalism don't go together naturally. He says we need individual rights in a free press, independent institutions to make sure that democratically elected government can also be removed from office by democratic means. "Liberal backsliding is going to lead to the end of democracy eventually," he says.

Shadi Hamid is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a contributing writer at The Atlantic. His latest book is The Problem of Democracy: America, the Middle East, and the Rise and Fall of an Idea.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Shadi Hamid discuss what happens when liberalism and democracy clash; whether countries with freely elected but highly illiberal governments can remain democratic; and why every consistent democrat has to embrace at least a minimal form of liberalism.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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