Laila Kollmorgen, Portfolio Manager, CLO Tranche for Pinebridge Investments, joins Jack for a Fireside Chat on Forward Guidance to discuss why collateralized loan obligations (CLOs) have rallied so much over the past two years as most of the fixed-income world has suffered enormously. Laila explains why she likes the structure of CLOs and why she thinks there will be an opportunity to be selective going forward as credit fundamentals begin to soften and valuations have increased. This interview is a Fireside Chat and paid sponsorship on behalf of the VanEck Associates Corporation.

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Laila Kollmorgen’s articles on Pinebridge:

https://www.pinebridge.com/en/insights/after-the-clo-rally-selectivity-will-be-key-as-fundamentals-shift

https://www.pinebridge.com/en/insights/after-the-clo-rally-selectivity-will-be-key-as-fundamentals-shift

https://www.pinebridge.com/en/insights/leveraged-finance-asset-allocation-insights-issuer-selection-is-key-as-loans

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Timestamps:

(00:00) Introduction

(01:15) What Is A Collateralized Loan Obligation (CLO)?

(05:37) CLOs (Collateralized Loan Obligations) vs. CDOs (Collateralized Debt Obligations): How CLOs Fared Much Better Than CDOs During The Great Financial Crisis

(13:13) Market Value CDOs and CLO Reinvestment Periods

(19:45) Why CLOs Have Performed So Well

(24:54) If Silicon Valley Bank Had Invested In CLOs Instead of Long-Duration Paper (Agency MBS & Treasurys), Perhaps They Would Still Be Around!

(35:26) CLO Valuations And Laila's Base Case For CLOs As Interest Rate Cutting Cycle Is About To Begin

(41:21) Have Economic Fundamentals Begun To Soften?

(43:37) Refinancing Risk (i.e. if CLO Manager Pays Off Tranche Liabilities At Par To Refinance At Tighter Spread)

(46:32) Some CLO Investors Were Buying Callable Paper Above Part (>100)! (That's "Crazy" Says Kollmorgen)

(51:59) The Maturity Wall For High Yield and Corporate Credit Has Been Extended

(56:13) How Might Various Tranches Of CLO Asset Class Perform In A Recession?

(59:41) Risk of Default and Risk of Distressed Sales

(01:03:53) Views On Liquidity and Volatility

(01:09:04) Not A Huge Fan of Private Credit CLOs

(01:13:37) Thoughts on "Creditor on Creditor Violence"

(01:17:10) Red Flags to Avoid In CLO World

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Disclaimer: Nothing discussed on Forward Guidance should be considered as investment advice. Please always do your own research & speak to a financial advisor befor