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The COVID pandemic has been going on for more than two years. Will it ever end? It’s a question that doesn’t have a straightforward answer, as much as we all desperately want one. Dr. Ellie Murray is an epidemiology assistant professor at the Boston University School of Public Health. She also runs the Murray Causal Decision Lab and co-hosts the “Casual Inference” podcast in partnership with the American Journal of Epidemiology. Murray joins WITHpod to discuss the importance of smart public health messaging, ethical and sociological concerns regarding the determination of “acceptable” virus case numbers and misconceptions of what endemicity means. She also talks about strategies for protecting those most at risk and why it’s possible that COVID could mutate into something much more dangerous if too much complacency continues.