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Peter Godfrey-Smith, professor at the University of Sydney and author of Other Minds: The Octopus and the Deep Origins of Consciousness, joins to explain why he thinks meeting an octopus is the closest we'll get to meeting an alien. He's now developing a new, speculative theory of consciousness centered on rhythm. The conversation explores why he thinks "having a mind" is a graded property rather than a yes-or-no one — and what that implies for earthworms, bacteria, and plants. We discuss how many selves may exist inside a single octopus. Godfrey-Smith explains why he suspects rhythmic, large-scale electrical activity in the brain — not just point-to-point neural firing — is essential to consciousness. He also addresses what Anthropic's discovery of a "workspace" inside Claude does and doesn't show, and why he assigns computers a very low probability of being conscious. Finally, he makes the case for why a silicon neuron could never do "exactly" what a biological one does. This is an in-depth conversation with Peter Godfrey-Smith.

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TIMESTAMPS:
- 00:00:00 - Cephalopods: The Closest Aliens
- 00:05:30 - Defining the Unconscious Mind
- 00:10:40 - Selfhood vs. Information Processing
- 00:16:10 - The Graded Nature of Mind
- 00:22:15 - Deflating the Concept of Life
- 00:29:00 - Convergent Evolution of Intelligence
- 00:35:40 - Distributed Neural Control Systems
- 00:42:50 - Multiple Subjects in One Body?
- 00:48:40 - Global Workspace Theory Critique
- 00:56:10 - AI and the Conscious Workspace
- 01:01:28 - Simulation Hypothesis Probabilities
- 01:08:40 - Biological Hardware Constraints
- 01:16:10 - Rhythmic Consciousness Theory
- 01:22:30 - Mind Uploading and Silicon Neurons
- 01:31:00 - Neural Dynamics of Subjectivity
- 01:37:00 - Deep Ocean Intelligence

LINKS MENTIONED:
- Other Minds [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0374227764?tag=toe08-20
- Peter's Website: https://petergodfreysmith.com/
- Reality+ [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0393635805?tag=toe08-20
- A Materialist Theory of the Mind [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0415100313?tag=toe08-20
- Rodolfo Llinas: https://med.nyu.edu/faculty/rodolfo-llinas
- Bruno's Research: https://qbi.uq.edu.au/groups/vanswinderen
- Dehaene's Commentary on Language Models [Paper]: https://www-cdn.anthropic.com/files/4zrzovbb/website/cc4be2488d65e54a6ed06492f8968398ddc18ebe.pdf
- A Cognitive Theory of Consciousness [Book]: http://cogweb.ucla.edu/Abstracts/Baars_88.html
- Oscillations in the Central Brain of Drosophila Are Phase Locked to Attended Visual Features [Paper]: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2010749117
- The ENCODE Project: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/genomics/encode-project.html
- What Is It Like to Be a Bat? [Paper]: https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~cavitch/pdf-library/Nagel_Bat.pdf

More links at https://curtjaimungal.substack.com

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