In Ali Smith's Gliff, two children wake up to find that someone has painted a red line around their home. They've been marked "unverifiable" and they're at risk of being captured. The dystopian near-future in which they live is a world of government surveillance and environmental destruction – and one without libraries. In today's episode, Smith talks with NPR's Scott Simon about the authoritarian themes in her novel. They discuss what makes authoritarianism feel attractive and safe, Smith's former career as an advertising copywriter, and the connection between slogans and tribalism.

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