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The Consensus Around Engagement in the US
It is an interesting hypothetical if at that moment the sort of consensus around engagement ended up becoming much more of a political debate in the US. To what extent perhaps Beijing leadership may have looked at that and understood what they could potentially be losing out on. I think America really did make an extraordinarily good faith effort to keep engagement going. And it did keep going. But we're reverting now for the old model, the retrograde model that Xi Jinping grew up with. And it's very frightening. It could have catastrophic consequences for the world.