It's a big part. So I'd say like fun and excitement, fun excitement and depth and like kind of a dance between those things, although I feel like the deeper I go and the more I learn, the more fun I want to have, if that makes sense, the lighter I get.

When you say depth, is it depth of experience or is it depth of intellect, intelligence? Is it?

I think it's depth of experience. It's like all I can kind of point to is like my stomach, but it's like the gut feeling of there is meaning in this, like their depth for me is meaning and purpose. You know, there's a meaning behind this. And so these kinds of conversations I get to have really fulfill that piece.

You lit up when you said meaning. Why is meaning and purpose so important in the way that you carry out your

day? Because I know what it feels like not to feel like you have meaning. I know the experience of just chasing the extrinsic experiences that just satisfy you from moment to moment. And being sort of addicted to those, especially in a city like New York where you can get those as much as you want. I know how empty that can be, but how unaware of the emptiness a lot of people are and how scared they can be to admit it, because then it means you have to go find the intrinsic stuff. But when you find it, it's meaningful. It's life altering. And so like my own change I've gone through in the last four years has been, oh, that's where it comes from. Not all that other stuff. And I've continued to untangle that.

It's interesting. You really do light up when you talk about the things that matter in life and the things that provide you with depth and experiences and even relationships. And you also said something about directionality. So I wonder, and I can't, please keep in mind, I can't prescribe you an icky guy, right? You've indicated that right off the bat, you said that reading, writing conversations are absolutely important to you. So I wonder if you're icky guy, I'm just curious to see if this is something that resonates with you, if your icky guy might be to find fully. And who knows? This might be something, I mean, you do definitely put a lot of time and attention and energy into understanding more about yourself so that you can self actualize and then share that with other people. Maybe that is even part of the raison d'etre of this podcast. Absolutely.