Are ultra-processed foods really the villain, or is the story more complicated? In this lively, no-nonsense conversation, endocrinologist Dr. David Ludwig (of Harvard and Boston Children’s Hospital) and journalist Gary Taubes unpack why “UPF” is an enticing label but a blunt tool for science, policy, and everyday guidance.

They cover:

Why defining “ultra-processed” is messy, and how lumping diverse packaged foods into one bucket can mislead.
How high-profile trials are interpreted (and misinterpreted), from short study durations to dropout bias and carryover effects.
The role of bias and confirmation bias in nutrition research and media narratives.
Where the debate should go next: moving beyond slogans toward mechanisms like how carbohydrate processing affects blood sugar and insulin.
What to do in the meantime: clearer study design, healthier discourse, and pragmatic takeaways people can use now.

In this conversation, you’ll hear sharp disagreements, candid critiques, and concrete suggestions for doing better science. Plus a spirited back-and-forth on what “good evidence” should look like and how individuals, clinicians, and policymakers can each act on different standards of proof.

What’s at stake isn’t academic nitpicking; it’s policy decisions, headlines, and, ultimately, what lands on your plate.

👉 Stay for the debate, and subscribe to Metabolic Mind for more conversations at the intersection of metabolism and mental health.

Expert Featured:

Dr. David Ludwig

X: https://x.com/davidludwigmd
Dr. Ludwig's UPF Study: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2508694

Gary Taubes

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Learn more about metabolic psychiatry and find helpful resources at https://metabolicmind.org/

About us:

Metabolic Mind is a non-profit initiative of Baszucki Group working to transform the study and treatment of mental disorders by exploring the connection between metabolism and brain health. We leverage the science of metabolic psychiatry and personal stories to offer education, community, and hope to people struggling with mental health challenges and those who care for them.

Our channel is for informational purposes only. We are not providing individual or group medical or healthcare advice nor establishing a provider-patient relationship. Many of the interventions we discuss can have dramatic or potentially dangerous effects if done without proper supervision. Consult your healthcare provider before changing your lifestyle or medications.

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