Controversial Responses in Education and Society

Join Malcolm and Simone Collins as they dive deep into the aftermath of the Charlie Kirk assassination. This episode explores the online and real-world communities connected to the event, the reactions from various groups, and the broader cultural and political implications. The discussion covers radicalization, the role of online subcultures, media narratives, and the impact on public discourse. Thought-provoking and unfiltered, this conversation challenges mainstream perspectives and encourages critical thinking about current events.

Malcolm Collins: So, in a A Steam group that was titled, read This If You're Gay, which is like, for like memes and stuff.

Simone Collins: Oh was, so is that what that one bullet engraving was? If you're reading this, you are gay.

Malcolm Collins: Oh yeah, he

Simone Collins: mentioned the steam group in the bullet. I hadn't even noticed that. Yeah, if you're reading this, you are gay, Lowell, something like that.

Malcolm Collins: They're described a radical, far left trans individual

posted quote, you guys, I have something big, big in all caps coming soon. Just be sure to check the news. You'll know it when you see it in quote, oh gosh. Immediately after the shooting they quote tweeted that other quote saying something big's about to happen, saying, well, that's that. So, was Sky Valez? Trans as well. , Released a song a few months before this titled Charlie Kirk dead at 31. And then they released a song titled Charlie Kirk's Death Isn't Enough for Me

We'll be going over the individual who said September 10th is gonna be a very interesting day. And then I plead the fifth. The person who said, Charlie Kirk doesn't know what's going to happen tomorrow. , The person who said, wouldn't it be funny if someone shot Charlie Kirk on September 10th?

If it is true that a large number of trans individuals were aware of this attack before it happened, that's something we need to introduce into the public conversation, this wouldn't be the first trans murder cult that we've talked about on this show. Look at the Ians. But if trans murderer cults are becoming a thing, that's something we need to be talking about. I.

would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today, today. We are going to be talking about a number of things related to the Charlie Kirk assassination.

I'm not excited about the assassination. I already had the day where I said, I'm not excited to be here with you today 'cause we were talking about that specifically. And that's not what we're talking about today. Today we're gonna talk about a few areas. One, we are going to be talking about a couple convergent phenomenons that are worse unpacking, which is the huge array of people who, with their public accounts are going out and saying.

I am glad that this happened. I am glad that this person was killed because of their, you know, very, if you look at his actual beliefs instead of like the random out of context quotes that you'll get from leftists, he's just boomer conservative. He's, he is not new, right. But he is very generic boomer conservative.

And these people are saying, no. I,

Simone Collins: I would say he's even, even more open than that. Or maybe hippie boomer conservative. Yeah. Hippie

Malcolm Collins: boomer, conservative. Yeah. He is, if, if you're like, I think people with those beliefs should be. Killed because that's what you're saying

Simone Collins: then you

Malcolm Collins: think

Simone Collins: most centrists in

Malcolm Collins: America

Simone Collins: or Christians should be

Malcolm Collins: killed, basically.

Yeah. And the number of people, like, we're gonna go over a number of teachers who have done this, the number of people who make video games and like run studios. We're gonna go over people in the medical field who have done this. You're, you're, and. Two things are interesting. One is that, that they feel that it's okay to say something like, I think mainstream conservatives should be killed without realizing that that's what they're, I mean, because they've been convinced that mainstream conservatives are extremists when they hold positions that most Americans have hold for the past 50 years.

Yeah. You know, they won. Feel safe going out and doing this Right. And, and by the way, if you wanna do something about this, don't complain to hr. And Asma Gold said, don't go to the top of your, your company go to OSHA and say you don't feel safe, because then the government has to do something.

I love

Simone Collins: that advice. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And the CEO. Is very likely to respond if a company is getting a lot of OSHA complaints and it can be done anonymously. So you just say, this person is saying that they want to kill mainstream conservatives. Right? Or they think this is a good thing, right?

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And I don't feel safe in this environment.

And, and that will, but the other thing that's interesting is that people are even addressing this. Like people are responding to this. Like, you, it, it, it feels like these people wouldn't have been fired. Three years ago or something like that. So we are absolutely now seeing a shift. Like, it's like, oh, well this is just like you guys, where you said you know, trans people are, are, are not a disenfranchised group, and in fact are a group in power because they are a group you are not allowed to criticize or you could be fired.

Like if you misgender them, you could be fired. And I'm like. There's a big difference for being fired for misgendering somebody and celebrating that somebody was shot in front of their children and saying that that should happen again in the future. Yeah. Like those are two categories of, one is being mildly inconvenienced and the other is demanding genocide.

Simone Collins: Well, and egging on a complete degradation or, or. And to public civility and, and safety in order and law following. But, but I also wanna

Malcolm Collins: point out here, and this is also really important, is the people who are like, well, then you should just never say that anyone, no matter what they're doing, should be punished in a way that is outside of the legal system, like you are just out against extra judicial killings.

I'm absolutely not, because I think if we look at where society is going right now, eventually we may need to. Rise up, right? Like, we may need to fight against this system if it becomes too dictatorial, if it becomes too controlling, that may happen within our lifetimes, and that involves extra judicial killings, right?

So these people who think that they've just found this safe position of, oh, well, just never, ever, ever rise up, just never, ever, ever revolt, well then what happens? Right. Like you, you need to be like, no. The problem is not the extra judicial killing thing, it's the extra judicial killing for like mainstream normal beliefs.

That is, that is psychotic, especially beliefs that aren't really hurting anyone. Mm-hmm. And we can get to, we got to that in the last episode. Well, people will be like, oh, we had all these beliefs that hurt people. No we didn't. It's very boomer conservative stuff. But anyway another thing I wanna get to, which is what we're gonna start with here, because I found this really fascinating, is in the last episode.

I made the prediction that I suspected this person was going to be trans or have ties to the trans community, right? Like this lighter sort of trans community thing comes out. Who this guy is, everyone is saying Malcolm, you mis called it like, I don't like that you get ahead of your skis on this stuff.

And I'm like, no, no, no. You have to get ahead of your skis if you have a worldview. Right. And this worldview cannot predict future events, right? Like it's a non predictive worldview. It cannot give you insight into why a country is doing something or what a country is gonna do next, or what a movement is going to do next, or what type of person is gonna do x.

You do not have a useful worldview like that. That worldview remains untested. And so I made a prediction that, one, a group, a very rare group in the us, it makes up like 1.5% of the US population was gonna be involved in this. Since the shooting has happened, some very interesting things have happened and, and people have done more researching.

Obviously the big one is, but I actually think that this might be less important, is that the, this, this, this person's, the person who they were in a relationship with and were living with turned out to be a trans person.

Simone Collins: So do we, do we have proof that they're in a relationship? Yes.

Malcolm Collins: The police have confirmed they were in a relationship.

Simone Collins: Whoa.

Malcolm Collins: So this isn't like random speculation anymore. This is, I think it was like the governor of Utah specifically confirmed this. So we'll get to that. I actually think that that person. So a lot of people have kept trying to be like, oh, here's this trans person online that seemed to have knowledge of the shooting before it happened.

This is this person's partner, romantic partner account. And then as we dig deeper, it turns out no, they were actually a different trans person and not this person's partner. Oh. So what we are finding is it. Peers that there were, in addition to this person's partners, three trans individuals and, and no one who wasn't a trans individual who knew about this shooting before it happened.

And a lot of, I thought a lot

Simone Collins: of people were saying because the roommate alleged partner was complicit in turning in.

Malcolm Collins: The roommate was not complicit. Tyler Robinson, the dad turned them in, but the roommate has helped give information to police and has been very cooperative with police. So my actual wider read that I can give a skip to ahead of times is I think that the person's girlfriend slash boyfriend, because they started dating before they were transitioning, and now they're transitioning anyway, girlfriend slash boyfriend.

I think that they may have. Actually not had anything to do with it. And that other trans people did have something to do with it, but the girlfriend slash boyfriend was the connection between the assassin and the whiter Utah trans community that was involved in this.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Um, So let's get into the evidence for this, because a lot of people have been mixing up parts of the evidence in a way that, that, that leads people to be like, oh, this has been debunked when it haven't been debunked.

So let's start with the Twitter account. Najaro Galson who goes by Omar. So this individual had tweeted leading up to the rally. Charlie Kirk is coming to my college tomorrow. I really hope someone evaporates him. Literally, let's just say something big will happen tomorrow. Now the problem with these particular tweets is they are real and they are from a, a trans individual's account but they have been paired with a picture of an individual. A different trans individual who is not this Omar character who just happens to be like a lawyer in San Francisco or something like that. And Omar had, it wasn't done maliciously and note Omar, the Omar account had retweeted one of their, this other trans individual's images.

So it was stuck in like the Google archive data Oh. Of what the individual like. Picture associated with the account. And so people were like, oh this is, this is proof. So, no, but it appears that somebody did know right? Like that, that I don't get much. I hope that somebody evaporates him. Let's just say something big will happen tomorrow.

Right? And this, let's just say something big will happen tomorrow with said in response to their tweet, Charlie Kirk is coming to my college tomorrow. I really hope somebody evaporates him. Literally. It So that indicates foreknowledge of what was going to happen. I note here I'm saying this is actually pretty big that I was able to call that a like 1% population was going to be involved in this and Charlie Kirk, and you could be like, well, that's who Charlie Kirk attack.

Charlie Kirk doesn't talk about it. Like Charlie Kirk is actually much more focused on other communities, like the general gay community, for example, than the trans community or. You know, on, on pro, right, pro, pro-life advocacy groups and stuff like that. This was a minority community. And I note here that this comes in relation to something I've noted in the nineties.

In the nineties when conservatives would go out and actually murder progressives which they did occasionally with bombings and stuff like that. It wasn't over like a variety of topics. It like, wasn't the environmentalist, it wasn't, it was always

Simone Collins: abortion, wasn't it?

Malcolm Collins: Always abortion. Yeah, always abortion.

That was the one thing that got you murdered. And I understand how they justified it to themselves. They were saying, well, this person is murdering people, therefore I have the right to murder them. Mm-hmm. With the trans community, they believe that having different beliefs in them is literally murdering trans community members, which is, I I see.

I can see

Simone Collins: that's the argument made that, but it's not true. You need like that trans Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's widely disproven that. Trans people who are blocked from undergoing transition and their lives. But, but that's still the argument made, that's still the belief held that not transitioning is dead.

It's

Malcolm Collins: not true, like in the community. It's a belief that it's true, but it's like the UK banned puberty blockers and within the community, unliving rates haven't gone up. Right. Like we know. Yeah, but

Simone Collins: I mean, remember the, the counter argument to conservatives, Christians killing people, going to abortion clinics was.

But it's not true that they're alive. Right, right. So, right. I'm just saying like, people have different, very different skew views of the world. And yeah, that's, but this

Malcolm Collins: is why when somebody was killed, I was like, okay, a feminist didn't do this because feminist don't go out and murder people like this.

Right. I was like, a, a, a gay person was unlikely to do this because like. I can't think of the last, you know, just generically gay person who killed people for being anti-gay. I don't think that's happened in like a decade. I don't, I, that might not have happened ever, now that I think about it. It must have happened somewhere, but it's, it's just like not a common thing.

It's, it's not a, you know, but was this community, we see this regularly and you can go to our video. My gender agency is murder where we talk about this. Still somebody on Twitter was like. Emailing us to try to be like, like retweeting all of our things being like trans people do not mass murder at a higher rate than other communities.

And we, like on that episode, go over the math like in detail, and they're like, no, grock agrees with me. And it's like Grock was pulling from PolitiFact, like a well known like left wing grift organization that regularly manipulates data. Like it said, I'm pulling from PolitiFact. Why don't you just run the numbers yourself?

It's easy to do the math. Anyway. Well, that's because.

Simone Collins: The, the prompt to gr was disprove these liars. Oh, that's what it was. The only, yeah, the only answer that grok could give was one that dis that, that disagreed with our argument.

Malcolm Collins: Just AI psychosis right there.

Simone Collins: So just present evidence that they're wrong was the evidence.

I'm

Malcolm Collins: right. Yes.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I actually used grok for the research on that episode. I was like, pull up the number of you know, trans mass shooters. What is the percentage in the population? Yeah. But I think

Simone Collins: most, or at least a lot of people using AI use it for confirmation bias. They don't use it for information finding.

So,

Malcolm Collins: Okay. So to go over some other tweets here that I think are interesting Skylar Webster at Fuji Incel posts five days before September 10th assassination. They were a far, they're described a radical, far left trans individual from the University of Washington High School student.

Posted quote, you guys, I have something big, big in all caps coming soon. Just be sure to check the news. You'll know it when you see it in quote, oh gosh. Immediately after the shooting they quote tweeted that other quote saying something big's about to happen, saying, well, that's that. Another one bites the dust or another CHD bites the dust, followed by a celebratory message.

So they were re. Quote, tweeting their own tweet saying something's about to happen,

Simone Collins: man, when you're like, complicit in murder, shouldn't you keep your mouth shut? I mean, only half of murders are solved in the us, right? Like,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, like this is, like, do well. So the g actual guy who did the assassination he was like, top 1% on like acts.

He was from like a, a Mormon. Conservative, like maga family. He seemed like a decent guy all throughout high school, all throughout middle school. Like everyone's like he was a really upstanding guy. Yeah. Goes to college, gets radicalized. And I've noticed this as well where I've noticed more radicalization in the people who long term date trans individuals than the trans individuals themselves.

I don't know what's causing this. It might be that like, because you have to take sort of a submissive position to their ideology. I mean, you don't want the cognitive dissonance of like there's something like they're doing that's hurting themselves or whatever. You become even more extreme in the ideology where, well, I

Simone Collins: think actually it has to do more with.

A feeling of impunity when you're acting selflessly. Like instead of acting in your own self, on your

Malcolm Collins: own behalf. Yeah. Right. Like, I'm

Simone Collins: not doing this for me because, you know, you're still seen as selfish even in a game of oppression Olympics. If you're acting on behalf of your own interest group you, you have more moral impunity per leftist ideology if you are acting on behalf of other groups.

This is why white Karens in general, on the left. Well and on the right, but like especially on the left in this, in this context, are so uniquely violent because they believe they are justified in doing anything. 'cause they are selflessly arguing in favor of, of people in favor of don't.

Malcolm Collins: The director that came to our house that was in, in this, this group of people she was arguing on behalf of like, oh, the poor Hispanic population and all this horrible stuff.

And I'm like, the majority of Hispanic men voted for Trump. And he told people he was gonna do this. Right. Like, you are pretending, like speaking on behalf of another group that doesn't even agree with you. You're speaking against their own asserted self-interest.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, and you're also ignoring the.

To use your own terminology, I guess a lived experience of so many people from Latin America and Central America who are either going through the process of legally immigrating now, or who have recently gone through the process of legally immigrating, spending tens of thousands of dollars that they can't afford to do this all correctly.

Only to see a whole bunch of other people jump the lines, cheat the system, and then be given money for, yeah. I

Malcolm Collins: felt so disgusted seeing this woman talk on behalf of the Latin American community when she knew that like our primary friend network is Latin American. That is, that is most of our friends. Not just most of our friends, but like Bruno who works on our fab AI with me and the, and the team working on that is Latin America.

Like our company is based outta Peru. Like, he, he's based out of Brazil is where we're doing that work out of. Like, my, my first kid's godfather is, you know, a Latin American immigrant like we work with the Latin American community way. It, it was very clear to me that I don't think she had any Latin American friends, like her entire, like their team was like white women.

Like Karens, it was like the Karen Police. Yeah. And, and they, I think that if one of them had been Latin American, she would've felt less comfortable saying stuff like that. It, you actually pointed out to me, which I thought was a very funny and interesting observation, is in the nineties they'd always have these like interracial friend groups where like, one is Asian and one is black, and one is like Hispanic, like on TV shows.

Simone Collins: Yeah. That was their way to show diversity.

Malcolm Collins: And you're like. But in reality, if you've ever been in a friend group like that, you know that there is like no more racist, a friend group than a friend group like that. That'd be the most

Simone Collins: based racist French group friend group ever.

Malcolm Collins: When you, when you hang, and this is the thing.

And I think there was a, this study that we went over, another episode that showed that like, conservatives have more like interracial friends than progressives do. Mm-hmm. I've gotta find that somewhere. But it's, it's, it's in part because of this. Like, once you sort of enter this post. Racist world, right?

Like I, I think that there's the, the racist, there's the anti-racist, and then there's the post racist. No, no, no.

Simone Collins: I, the way I feel it now, at least what the, the feeling I get from the ID of the United States is that we are all stifled under this heavy wet wool blanket of ra we'll say like racial dysphoria.

Racist dysphoria. And then beneath it is just this like itching, racist euphoria where people just like, like 100% work together, whatever. But like just, you know. Well, no, she,

Malcolm Collins: like the, the director lady we had over said racist. Like constantly, she was saying racist and sexist stuff. Like, like, aren't you, aren't you afraid, ashamed to be white?

You know? Don't mean no. Aren't you ashamed of your

Simone Collins: white privilege?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. No, this is stuff like, imagine if you said like one person, she was like, I'm ashamed to be white. I'm like, imagine if a black person was like, I'm ashamed to be black. You'd say they have internalized racism, right? Mm-hmm. Like this is just racism.

But she like was getting off on being racist all the time because she thought she could like get away with it in a modern context. Sex.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Which was just like. It's hilarious how frequently, like woke act, just like transparently racist when they think they can get away with it. Like this, like deep desire to be racist all the time.

That's, but anyway, I'm gonna keep going with this conversation here.

So this topic exploded a bit after we recorded this episode with a number of other instances coming to light. Specifically, there was a talker on a trans account that said, , this was somebody called at, definitely not Jackson. , Charlie Kirk, Mr. College Dropout does not know what's coming tomorrow. Be ready.

This isn't a threat, it's a promise.

There were also two other accounts, , one, , that was titled Tally Habu. . Which on September 3rd, 2025, a week before the shooting posted, it would be funny if someone like Charlie Kirk got shot on September 10th. LMAO, , was this individual. We don't know if they're trans or not, but the FBI suspects they are because they're doing an investigation into this.

, And then another one at Alto. . On August 6th, 2025, about a month before the shooting, the account posted September 10th, will be a very interesting day, a follow-up after the shooting. Said I plead the fifth, , in relation to the previous post.

, This post also reposted another account that we'll be talking about in a second, the Turbo 75 account, , which was a, another transgender individual. This person, the alto of the people who knew about this beforehand, is the only one that claims to be a cis man, although they do say that they used they, them pronouns for a while, , but had recently moved back. .

And I point out here for people who are too deep to realize this, , using they them pronouns is not like dipping your toes in the trans community. You have to be pretty deep in the community to use, , not just like he, her or , whatever, , to use like neo pronouns.

Malcolm Collins: So, in a a a A Steam group that was titled, read This If You're Gay, which is like, for like memes and stuff. September 10th, 2025. 1124. So,

Simone Collins: oh was, so is that what that one bullet engraving was? If you're reading this, you are gay.

Malcolm Collins: Oh yeah, he

Simone Collins: mentioned the steam group in the bullet. I hadn't even noticed that. Yeah, if you're reading this, you are gay, Lowell, something like that. Right? It's

Malcolm Collins: a common meme. But in the group referenced on the shell casing Right. That he was a member of before the assassination. Hap oh no, sorry. This was mere hours after the fatal shooting.

So around 7:00 PM that evening, but crucially before the suspect's arrest or acknowledgement. So he was a member of this group, the group. Didn't you know, publicly would've had no way of knowing that he was involved in this, presumably. Right.

So it was a group that was focused on furry and LGBTQ plus subculture. A poster named Cherry Lon who unfortunately wasn't able to get any other information on, said, be careful over your S**T, you say online end to end encryption messaging platforms like Signal exists for reasons or just use PGP.

And yes, this is directly referencing a very specific thing that happened.

Simone Collins: Oh, that's as Octavian would say, sus. Sus. No, it's

Malcolm Collins: not sus It's basically admitting it was after the shooting. The member was there. He referenced the group on the shell casings that hadn't been announced at the time yet. And one member of the group is like, Hey guys, just make sure you don't talk about this publicly.

So it meant that this was being discussed was in the community, right? This was something that a lot of people knew about before it happened. Hmm.

Then as another individual who knew about this which has again been confused with this person's significant other, so, but is not their. So, was Sky Valez?

They are a Utah based musician and photographer and trans as well. And they are a one woman noise metal band called God's Finest Scalpel. And they appear to work as like a, a tattooist Anyway they, released a song in August, 2025. So a few months before this titled Charlie Kirk dead at 31.

And and then in April, 2025, they released a song titled Charlie Kirk's Death Isn't Enough for Me and Death to American Scum. So given he was killed at 31, so this was a, I thought he was

Simone Collins: 32.

Malcolm Collins: Was he 32? Mm-hmm. Let's look it up.

Simone Collins: October 14th, 1993.

God, we're old. Age of death. 31 years. I was wrong.

Malcolm Collins: Told you. So, yeah. So this individual appeared to know. Ahead of time, months ahead of time when Charlie Kirk was gonna be killed. And keep in mind, you can be like, it could be a random coincidence that this person knew. I'm like, okay, let's go back here a bit.

This was a trans individual. Everyone who seemed to know beforehand was a trans individual in Utah. So, that's a, that's an unusual trans community as well, like the XMO trans community Right. Around this university. Like you, you still think that's a coincidence. It appears very clear where this individual who did the shooting was radicalized and the community that helped him plan this.

Now obviously the question here is, did they just passively know about this? Or were they actively engaged with the planning and stuff like this? Given the fact, I mean, if you look at the anger that goes into songs, like, like these songs are super angry like Charlie Kirk Dead at 31 and Charlie Kirk's Death isn't enough for me.

These. Like this person was clearly thinking about this a lot, and they expected the audience to be aware of this. Like in their underground, trans Utah music scene, they expected there to be like enough knowledge about this to get like underground credit points that this is something that was going to happen in the near future.

Hmm. And I, I hate what I'm seeing on the left in regards to this is they're like, oh, that was debunked. Right? Like, I've actually seen, like, and what they mean is, is it was debunked that the individual who wrote these songs, sky Vandal EZ, was the shooter themselves. I'm like. Y Yes. They weren't the shooter.

That's not, it's not debunked that they wrote these songs and they were very publicly on multiple song hosting platforms, right? Like, that wasn't debunked. It is debunked that they were not the shooter. Or they'll say, oh, that first tweet was debunked. And I was like, no. The image associated with it was debunked.

Did not. That somebody who was a trans individual going to this university in Utah appeared to have knowledge that the shooting was about to happen.

Simone Collins: Right

Malcolm Collins: now. I wanna quickly go over the oh, o, other, other accounts. Sorry. There was also we effing did it, let it die. Let it die. These were tweeted by, potentially the, the partner of, of the, the assassin. But it could have been another trans account. So this is yet another trans account that may have been involved and known about this. This would've been an account called at Troub 75. This was a male to female account. The account at, at in, in.

The account's bio at the time said, saw Tyler on June 30th. So Tyler was the name of the assassin, if you're forgetting here, by the way. Yeah. Now they later said, oh no, this was a band I went to see. But again, this is very sus.

Sorry. The most important part of this is the person who said we effing did it. This trans individual was a follower of the Assassin's Trans girlfriend on Twitter, so appeared to have direct connection to that group.

And I would note here any individual, one of these instances, I might be like coincidence, crazy coincidence, but still coincidence in people acting in bad taste. Given the similarities between the individuals who appear to know about this beforehand, given that they appear connected to each other and given.

, The implausibility that so many of them could make this accidental prediction all at once. It seems fairly obvious there was a wider, , well, trans Utah community involved in this. I.

Malcolm Collins: Alright, now I want to talk about the celebrations because it's also something that we need to talk about as a society. 'cause it's like.

Simone Collins: Well, actually, there's one thing I kind of wanted to ask you about, you know, on this, on this trans associations front. Because at, at first when we recorded the episode about the assassination, all that we knew it was reported that there were anti-fascist and trans slogans.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, no, no. People had already said that the trans slogans were not actually on the bullets, and they weren't, it turned out they weren't on the, they

Simone Collins: weren't. It was just terminally online stuff. And my initial read of it was, oh, this is just a terminally online person. What's your refutation of that and what's your re reputation of arguments that No, what's wrong with this person isn't leftism or right, is they could have easily have fallen for Nick Fuentes or something else.

And gone super right? Instead of super. The issue is that they were too online and they didn't, as Charlie Kirk encouraged people to touch grass enough.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I, I actually don't think that's, that's a, a good explanation at all. Okay. So why, so first, if you look at the people who appeared to know about this mm-hmm.

Before the event, they appeared to be not internet friends, but IRL friends. These are. Utah, ex Mormon, trans individuals, that implies a in-person community to me. Yeah. That they, they likely, and when you're talking about stuff like indie musicians and stuff like that, that to me implies like underground clubs, an IRL

Simone Collins: scene,

Malcolm Collins: an IRL scene where this was being talked about not just within online forums.

Mm-hmm. And I'd also note here the very fact that I was able to call out that this was going to come from the trans community is pretty effing wild when I'm like, oh yeah, they're the only ones who really do political violence like this. Not like only do, but they seem to disproportionately do it in radicalize individuals.

That's very unique. That's not happening on, you know, there hasn't, well, they found the

Simone Collins: perfect storm because they brought in a conservatively raised gun trained. Young man who actually was a good shot.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, because normally their hit rate isn't great. Yeah. They work to, to find an individual like this and bring them into the community.

But no they, they as a community and you've also talked about this with, with Mormons being uniquely susceptible. I think this is more due to just sort of the, the genetic effects of being born. And people actually,

Simone Collins: Who follow our podcast had hoped that you would comment on this too, like, is this.

Is a lot of this about that, this dynamic that you pointed out, where, where Mormon children seem to be uniquely vulnerable to being radicalized by extreme online groups?

Malcolm Collins: Well, I, I think Mormons are sort of designed for like, I don't mean this any, I, I love Mormons. It's great culture. Lots of Mormon friends, fans, very close with the Mormon community.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: I even considered my theology pretty close to Mormon, some forms of Mormon theology. And so I've, I think that if we look historically at what drew people to the Mormon church and the personality profile that drew people to the Mormon church,

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: It is a like historically speaking, and I think Mormons who, who are like more broadly able to see their, their religion without bias would understand that their religion.

In its fairly recent history is what if it was that today we would just call a cult, like, you, I mean you could call our religion a cult 'cause it's a new religion. Most new religion movements are, I think

Simone Collins: the argument you've made though, at least to any Mormon who's like, well, what advice would you give to the LDS church on growth?

The best argument that I've heard you make, that I really agree with is. Hey, actually the best thing that the LDS church could do is lean into weirdness because the problem is by leaning into conformity and acceptance you are making it hard for members of the church to stay in the church when they're exposed to mainstream society.

Exactly. And to take that a step further, once these people who are raised in this kind of, you must conform with the group you're in, end up in radicalized groups like this. They go bonkers.

Malcolm Collins: Well, and also what are they supposed to do? I mean, you a lot of the sort of Mormon culture teaches people be normal.

Be normal because it's afraid of this cult branding. Well be normative with your surrounding group. Right. The problem is, is the normative group, like the normative cultural group is. The urban monoculture, right? Mm-hmm. And so now they're like, well, if I'm actually gonna be normal, I'm gonna adapt to urban monocultural practices.

And then it's like, but I still have all of these like extremist cultist tendencies. Yeah. So what's a cult that's approved by the urban monoculture? Oh, it's this identity politics stuff. So I'm gonna go 100% all in on that. And I think the way that you fix this is I teach your kids we are different. We are not normal.

And you should have pride in that. Mm-hmm. Normal is bad. Don't be normal. Be weird because being Mormon is weird and that's cool. Right? And, and that's how you resist this. You know, when these people come to him and they're like, you are. A, a Mormon, which makes you weird, an X, y, and Z way. You, you can actually hit them with the Uno reverse card.

Be like, what are you discriminating against me for my minority religious background? Like, do you know what Mormons have gone through with the US government? Are you aware of the number of Mormons that were killed at the battle of whatever? My people have been through discrimination since, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You know, you go, right. We haven't even had a president yet. You know, you, you, you could go far with that, right? And so defend the Mormon community. I, I, I like that, but yeah, I, I do think that it, it is uniquely susceptible to a lot of this, so anyway. One, I think it's, it's not about generic online communities.

It's about one online community. And generic online communities do not radicalize people into killers that frequently. Like we've noticed, it's actually been pretty weird that there are not more incel shooters. Right. When you look at the rates of, of, of violence you would expect from this community, you

Simone Collins: have a whole podcast on it.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. We have a whole podcast on it. But, it's one of the only ideologies that can convince people that by disagreeing with them, you're murdering people. Mm-hmm. Like Antifa genuinely believes, and you can see this on his, his, his, his shells and everything like that, that mainstream boomer conservatism is fascism.

They, they genuinely believe that Trump is a fascist. They genuinely, like, even though I was like you, whatever you bring up you know that Trump was a felon for like, obviously trumped up charges. Again, like what specifically did he get the felony for? For not disclosing his prostitute payments in his tax filings which is not a felony.

Unless you, you counted it in a certain way, it's really, but you can go to episodes where we've gone deeper on this. But it's a bit like being like, oh yeah, somebody's like Nelson Mandela known felon. And it's like, well, wasn't he a political prisoner? Like that doesn't exactly make me trust him less.

I, I love it. People were freaking out that we had made this comparison in one of our free Iest episodes, and it's like. , They were like, well, Trump's a ex like a, a a a rapist and a something and a something. And I'm like, I, I disagree on those points. Like you assume that I live in this world that you live in where you believe every negative accusation that's made about right wing figures in the media.

And me as a right wing figure in the media knows that the media just makes stuff up all the time. And it's important that you do your own research on this stuff. And so you just further. Unjustly victimize an individual, making me further sympathetic to them, and not just me, but other people like me.

When you do these sorts of spurious accusations, I.

Malcolm Collins: But the point here being is because they have developed an ideology which isn't true for most online ideologies, that frames anyone has disagreed with them as murdering them or as killing them or as genocide them. They now have a, a, a moral license to. Like bike lock Antifa guy, right? Like, I think that this is, and we'll do a separate episode on trans tifa.

I think this is like a broader thing. It's not like just the trans movement, it's the part of the trans movement that's been co-opted by Antifa and has sort of merged with Antifa into this wider, I have a moral license to murder people with mainstream political beliefs because I disagree with them.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And this has become a normative belief system. Like, you literally, you, you would not see if a leftist figure was like murdered in front of his family. You might see some like crazy online right wing people celebrating it, right? A hundred percent. But you wouldn't see them jumping in the crowd celebrating Wow.

Watching it happen, which we literally, you know, have pictures of from this event. Right. And you wouldn't see. Tons of, so to just go through a few of, 'cause there was like 30 instances of teachers being fired for this. And keep in mind, these are people who are teaching your kids. Like you might be like, oh, they were fired for saying this, that that's good.

And it's like, what were they saying to the kids before this? Right. And what about the ones that were smart enough to do this on an alt account, right? Yeah. High school teacher, Greenville County School District, South Carolina. W Bullock was fired after posting on Facebook, quote, thoughts and prayers to his children.

But in my opinion America became greater today. There I said it. Then assistant Cheer Coach Meridian High School, Idaho said You effing got what you effing deserve. I just saw the effing video. It looks like you got shot in the neck or chest. I'm not saying I wish death upon someone, but that's what I'm effing saying for this mother Effer piece of effing s I hope he's dead.

She then added, oh, I hope he is not dead. Oh, oh, pray for Charlie Kirk. Oh, oh. And then later noted, no, he didn't deserve to be violently killed by that, blah, blah, blah, blah. But this is the thing, like they believe that this individual, like, they'll be like, oh, he was a racist. And I'm like, proof he was a racist.

Right. And they'll be like, well, he said he was worried about when he saw like black pilots, right. Like on his flight. Right. And given the current DII practices and I'm like, anybody who's aware, look at our video, the American Chernobyl is gonna happen with like the TFA explicitly. Asking in their test to try to hire more black people because they were the actual racist.

And then having the correct answer on the test being that you don't like science and you don't take directions well because they thought that's the way black people answered. Like, that's gonna lead to bad people in flying capacity. I can see why I think they're also

Simone Collins: just being taken so widely out of context.

Another prominent example is Stephen King subsequently apologizing for tweeting after he was shot. He believed gays should be stoned to death, by the way. Or just FYI, which he didn't. And really he was apparently responding to miss Rachel, you know, the, the really prominent kids show. Yeah. Like content producer referring to the Bible's love thy neighbor thing.

And you know, in terms of like how we need to be kinder to people. She's a very prominent sort of help kids in Palestine fundraiser and. That has caught her, you know, sort of in, in the middle of political cross hairs. And I think in that context, Charlie Kirk pointed out, well, you know, the, the Bible also says that gays should be stoned to death, just so you know.

And then that was turned into Charlie Kirk. Things gaze should be stoned to death. Which is so

Malcolm Collins: white, like he just being reasonable. Like he wasn't actually any, the other one, like the MLK one, oh he says MMLK with a bag. MLK was a serial adulterer. Like we know this now. He, he cheated with. Friends who were in the clergy with him, spouses like.

He, there's, there's problems with M-L-K-M-L-K is, doesn't have the spotless record, Charlie Kirk does. You know, I hate to say it, but it is, it is just true. You can look at the video we did with Curtis Jarvin on MLK's you know, association with Communists and communists. You know, killed way more people than racists ever did.

If you're surprised by this claim, , and you're like, that can't be the true, what about like the entire slave trade? , If you look at, and it depends on the numbers that you're looking at, but , based on some of the numbers that are held by mainstream academics, if you look at the entire number of people who died over the course of the entire inter transatlantic slave trade, , that number would be about equivalent to just the people who died in just the five years of China's great leap forward.

Malcolm Collins: Right. So like, let's, let's talk about like evil ideologies here. I, I would say that if Charlie Kirk was actually like, associated in working with like, mainstream racist, that's probably the equivalent of working with mainstream. This is the thing when everyone's like, oh, he met with a Nazi, or, you know, he said a Nazi thing.

And I'm like, well, you have communists at your rallies. Like, communists killed way more people than Nazis killed. Like, what, what are you, what, what is this like. Why are we supposed to be freaked out about associating with Nazis and not freaked out about associating with communists? It's like, oh yeah.

Because you control the academic institutions and media and you get to control which groups are the groups we're allowed to associate with and not associate with, or the ideas we're allowed to flirt with and not flirt with. Right. Which just, just disgusting, but. Good point. Anyway, to continue here we got a school teacher in Oregon who said that learning of this guy's death in front of his kids, brightened up his day.

You had somebody in, in Wisconsin, a teacher be put on leave for saying he was a racist, xenophobic, transphobic, Islamophobic, sexist white nationalists mouthpiece who made millions off. Dollars inciting hatred in this country. Which he wasn't most of those things. He, like, if you actually look at his stuff he believed he, his, his views on gays were the Bible's views on gays.

Okay. Or at least mainstream evangelical interpretations of the Bible's views of gays. So if you're saying he's homophobic, you are saying no one is allowed to have. Mainstream evangelical religious beliefs, like that's an entire religion that you're, like, you're not allowed to believe. Right? On hearing, hearing his arguments

Simone Collins: against trans people who are actively debating him at his college events, like, you know, why is it not okay for me to ask to be called by my gender?

His arguments seemed really close to ours, really focused around the lack of consent. That goes into that. Yeah. And the fact that you're forcing people to lie and that, that's morally very questionable. Well, from

Malcolm Collins: their perspective. I mean, different cultures deal with sexual boundaries differently.

They deal with consent differently. Mm-hmm. You know, a great example of this which I haven't had time to really articulate, but I've sort of been working in my head as. Okay. Suppose you were going to a native island, right? And you knew that on this native island if you showed your knees, that was considered like a very sexual thing.

And this is true for some cultures, right? Like showing your knees. Yeah. You would be like an absolute DBA to go like showing your knees, right? Because you're being like, what? Within my culture I can show my knees and it's like, yeah. But within their culture, especially if you were going to talk to their kids or something and you knew you were going to talk to their kids.

Right. Now in our society if you do something like because we were at this, this gender studies school class. And somebody was like, well, somebody wanted to dress up and act like a cat in school. And it like created anger in me and like, I don't know why it created anger in me. And now I've like matured past that, you know, because they went to college and were brainwashed.

I was like, no, that, that should have created anger in you because within most cultures that live within America. If a, if somebody says, I want to dress up and play like a cat, that's sexual role play. That's like a, a sexual thing, right? Like I've had girls who wanted to do that, like cool, right? But I wouldn't walk them around on like a leash in like a cat, in like a public context because everyone would be like, oh, that's a sex thing that they are forcing on me without my consent.

Simone Collins: Yeah, man. Get a room.

Malcolm Collins: Lingerie covers about as much as skimpy mainstream female clothing, but we culturally recognize lingerie as a sexualized outfit in display, right? If you went to a children's book leading, dressed in lingerie, you would understand, and the audience would understand that within most people's cultures, not within everyone's culture, within most of the attendance cultures, that is a sexualized display that you are subjecting them to without their consent.

Yeah, this is true for not every, like if you're trans and you're totally passing and everything like that, that's generally not a sexualized display. Okay. But the way that many people are dressing at like children's book readings is very clearly a sexualized display and an intentional sexualized display.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: Like

Malcolm Collins: everything that Alac, Vade, Menon does. The way they dress Oh, is always a sexualized display. It is the equivalent of lingerie, right? And they are subjecting individuals to this without these individual's consent and knowing that they are from the perspective of those people's parents subjecting the children to a sexualized display.

And I think that that's really, really effed. And I think that that's what we're talking about when we're saying you are defining your culture as having more rights than any other culture. You're basically saying everybody has to adopt my cultural norms. And it's the same with gendering, right?

I, when I talk to a Catholic priest. I may not be Catholic, but I'd still call them father because you know, they earn that title through their system. But I can understand somebody from a strong other religious background being like, I'm sorry, I just can't call you father because I do not like, you're not my father from my perspective.

Right. The Catholic priest doesn't say, well, by law you have to call me Father. I'm gonna make it so that you have to call me Father. By law, you have to call me by this title. But the trans community does do that. If somebody has a religious objection to this though, they're like, we will get you fired.

We will make this legal. And that's, that is fundamentally a violation of other people's consent which is really, really bad.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: To, to force that on people, particularly to force it on children, particularly to defend the people who are forcing it on children. And this is when people are being like, well, are you just saying I can't be my identity around children?

And it's. No, like you can, you can interact with children without wearing a clearly sexualized display. And this is why I use lingerie here, right? Because lingerie, you should be able to wear around children like lingerie covers up all your bits, you know what I mean? Like from just like a pure, like I'm following the rules perspective.

Oh, like technically

Simone Collins: speaking. Hmm?

Malcolm Collins: Technically speaking, you're covering up everything. You're supposed to be covering up. But like we all understand that you don't wear this in front of kids, right? Because culturally, we recognize this as a sexualized display. It's the same for most of the outfits you see at things like children's book readings.

And then people can be like, well, so then you don't have a problem with most of the trans. No, I don't. And this is actually the, the problem. But that the community then defends these individuals and said, if you attack these people who are doing sexualized displays around children, you are functionally murdering us.

I'm like, okay. One, not true, but two, when you normalize that, then you normalize murder. And so I think if that statement that people need to like freak out and fight, fight back against really strongly when everyone says,

You need to. Respond to them. That type of language is both a lie and leads to people being killed.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And that's upstream of all this, this, this isn't upstream of gun culture. This isn't upstream of, of, of, I'd even say normal, far progressive ideology. This is downstream of the belief that disagreeing with you is killing people. And this is held commonly within like the punch of fascist within the Antifa community with, which I've always found so funny because they're literal black shirts.

They're doing what? The literal black shirt. They, they, IE they call themselves black shirts. Antifa calls themselves black shirts.

Simone Collins: What's a black shirt? Sorry. Ignorant. So.

Malcolm Collins: Antifa is unaware of this, but black shirts are what? The brown shirts that the Nazis had were named after in Fascist Italy where fascism was invented.

Okay? Their common public enforcer were called black shirts, and this is why the Nazis called their enforcers brown shirts and now Antifa it again, calling themselves black shirts, enforcing a fascist ideology that wants to divide humans based on our ethnic group and sexuality and gender. And you know, fortunately there.

All dying out due to their fertility rates, but they're gonna try to take a lot of us wisdom on the way, and we need to be ready to call them out as being the equivalent of a murderer whenever they say, you are killing people in our community by saying this, when we know that's factually untrue. And as we pointed out in our episode the one about the Atlantic, a piece where the Atlantic is, is going against the trans community and argues from a leftist perspective there is literally zero evidence that this increases you on living risk goes in the community. I think that that's downstream of all the rest of this.

Simone Collins: Hmm. And

Malcolm Collins: I'm not gonna read more teachers saying stuff because you guys know that people are doing this.

You know that there's like. 25 instances of this, this is mainstream, was in our school system and these are just the ones dumb enough to post was their own you know, but who

Simone Collins: are, who are celebrating the, the severe undermining possibly for the time being downfall of open public discourse in the United States.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. That's what he represented. And, and, and, and I think that that's why I get so angry when people on the right are like, we should never violate the law. And you know, kill someone, right? Because it's like, well, you're also saying, but we're headed towards civil war, which means you don't believe that, say what you believe, which is that you only do something like this.

When somebody is in the process of like a mass murder in legal solutions, don't hap matter or, or work,

so when you are net giving wives

and that's why I get so angry by these people being like, oh, you never violate the law. No, you violate the law when the law is going to lead. Like, you have to be aware. You can't talk about revolutions on one side of your mouth and then talk about, always following the law from the other side of your mouth, you need to call out what the actual problem here is. Anyway, any final thoughts, Simone?

Simone Collins: This is dark and depressing. I just, I, yeah, I, I hoped that we were better than this and we're not, but I hope that. What we'll see as a result of this is people nevertheless rising above and finding creative ways to fight for the same thing that Kirk was fighting for, which is open discourse and exchange of ideas.

I still think that there are ways forward with greater caution, obviously, and I hope that people stepped up step up to pursue them.

Malcolm Collins: Yep. All right. Love you, Simone. Have a spectacular day.

Simone Collins: You too. Dark times, but we get to see our kids soon. So there's that.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well people were remarking in the other video that you were crying at the Charlie Kirk assassination.

But I like demanded no crying. When my mom died, Simone cried. When my mom died, I didn't cry. Did I cry? I seem to remember you crying a couple times. A little bit. But you were trying to hold it in 'cause you could see that I was holding it in and I think that made you feel like you didn't have the right to.

Simone Collins: Yeah. What a, again, my weak spot is anything bad happening to kids, especially, and knowing he has a wife and two young kids. I, yeah. I mean, we saw it iChecking up, just No, actually they weren't there, thank God. Oh, they weren't? That was, yeah, misreported. Widely misreported. But yeah, thank, thank goodness they were not physically present.

That doesn't change the fact that they're very likely gonna see that footage again and again throughout their lives. And that. It devastates me again. No,

Malcolm Collins: I bet people are, are sending it to them regularly. I mean, you know how progressive are Well, they're,

Simone Collins: they're too, they're too young now to be exposed. I mean, it's like, I think they're three in one.

But yeah. Okay, great. Well thanks. Now I'm crying against It's well, you

Malcolm Collins: should reach out to his wife. We'll put, put them in our marriage network. Seem like good people. Yeah,

Simone Collins: they're amazing people. Anyway. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, great. Love you Simone. Bye. Love

Simone Collins: you too.

Malcolm Collins: Okay for the.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I'm thrilled that we've Diaz golded your room. I'm really proud of it. Oh, your mic isn't plugged in. Oh, yeah. See, look at that. The, I could walk on the floor. I can walk on the floor. It's incredible. Yeah, but I can't, I can't hear anything you're saying.

Your mic still isn't plugged in.

Malcolm Collins: Can you hear me?

Simone Collins: Yeah, no, I can. It's amazing.

Malcolm Collins: I love this and I love that reality fabricator is mostly working. I was checking the logic on the not safe for work story generator, and it needs a significant overhead overhaul. So I'm gonna try to get that handled by the end of this week.

What seems to be

Simone Collins: breaking.

Malcolm Collins: What, so the logic that it's using when I was originally creating it, it was difficult to, because it kept not wanting to do not safe for work, anything. Right? This was the coding apps, not the apps that we have running the AI in it, which are meant for not safe for work, but they're not good at coding anyway.

So it wrote a lot of the backend, assuming like full stories instead of specific not safe for work world play scenarios. So we are gusting enough to work better with just creating scenarios for not safer work stuff and better seeing and interpreting what the user wants from those scenarios. Because right now it's just too much of a generic adventure creator with a bunch of like, fluff in the creation process that it doesn't really need.

So it will be able to create your wildest fantasies. It's just a few clicks, and then you get to select the one that you want most.

Simone Collins: My favorite thing about the NSFW section is there's a checklist, like if you don't immediately have some fantasy you wanna create, you can just go check off everything that might potentially turn you on.

And I don't like it just from a perspective of like, okay, I know these are my kinks or fetishes or whatever, but like maybe you don't. There were things in there that I'd never heard of before and we wrote a book on sexuality together, what if you're like, well, maybe in, in her blog, knowing this ALA for example, had talked about you know, a lot of women don't realize, for example, that they're into PDSM and they'll live huge portions of their lives not getting any satisfaction from sex. And then they suddenly discover that power dynamics make it for them and they're like, whoa, I actually really do like sex.

And I think this is a really great low stakes way to explore stuff that you may. You may have no idea it turns you on or not. Well, when the, in terms of just our kids exploring their sexuality in a safe way. I, I know it's really bad to, like, you can have No, I'm NSF AI is really paying for

Malcolm Collins: this yeah.

To give people an a, a a sort of non-human outlet to relieve sexual impulses. And explore.

Simone Collins: And explore, you know, 'cause in, you know,

Malcolm Collins: if, if, if it's, if it's good at handling those, then you don't need to do, you know, human stuff. Right. Which is, yeah, human stuff. Like for example, I, I've seen some people who have like kinks and they like demand that they find a husband or wife that matches their kinks, and I'm like, no, don't, don't do that.

Your kinks are rare. Like, and it, it's gonna have very little to do with your relationship. Do that with like an AI or something, right? Like. Don't, don't rope your human wife or husband into this.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: That's, that's an incredibly niche thing that has like nothing to do with your personality.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Just think of the number of relationships that will be saved because people have a different outlet than putting their entire same marriage on the line because they.

Greater sexual satisfaction.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah,

Simone Collins: it's, it's wonderful. It's a thing of beauty.

Malcolm Collins: Well, we'll see. I mean, the adventure creator part of the AI is working great right now. So if you wanna, if you wanna play adventures we got some great scenarios on there. All that's working. If you wanna experiment with like multiple ais talking to each other, so like, suppose you wrote a document and you're like.

I don't wanna know, like what one AI would have to say about this. I wanna know like what conversation multiple ais would have about this. We have a feature of the AI lab that lets you do that, which I haven't seen anyone else offer, so I think it's pretty fun. Anyway I what do people say on the episode today about China women and dating?

The,

Simone Collins: the biggest thing that we missed which I really appreciate people pointing out, a couple people pointed this out as, as you saw too in the comments, was that single. Women or women in, in China in general have basically been raised as only children, spoiled brats. And also because of the gender difference, the fact that there are many more men, millions more men than women, to have just wildly unrealistic expectations.

Like you are a rare, you are a little princess, like you deserve everything. And there was this one. I read about this in, or heard about this in another podcast called Texty by this great YouTuber. You, you all should check her out if, if you're a girl, I guess, that goes through historical texts in a kind of gossipy way.

But it, she, she read excerpts from this one, like Victorian Writer's advice on who to marry as a man or a woman. He had suffered books for each, but in each, he warned against marrying anyone who was a single child, like, because their, their parents were failures, sort of genetically. Like they're unfit as it is and, and probably if they've been raised to be really selfish.

And I feel like obviously, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm a single one child created, like

Malcolm Collins: a whole generation of that.

Simone Collins: Yeah. That's the thing though, is, is like there is truth to what this guy said, and you're a single child. I know. And look at what you've had to put up with

Malcolm Collins: you. You have two half siblings, so Not really.

And I, I planned

Simone Collins: on never getting married either because I was too spoiled and didn't wanna compromise on anything. So you're very

Malcolm Collins: compromise ish? No. No. But the, the I'm sorry. There's another point I wanted to get to there that I thought was interesting. What are we talking about? I mean, the

Simone Collins: really common comment on the Women in China episode is like, this ain't just a woman in China thing.

Oh yeah. Women everywhere thing, I mean,

Malcolm Collins: people don't realize how big this is. So when we talk about China's low fertility rate. Right. You know, we're looking at the fertility rate of people who are already married. Right. Usually speaking, especially in a Chinese context. And if the marriage rate has halved from 2013 till today, that a very recent time window, that means we're probably not seeing the impact of that in the fertility rate yet.

Mm-hmm. So we are looking to see the fertility rate drop even more dramatically going forwards.

Simone Collins: Outlook. Not good. Says eight ball.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, it's bad. It is so bad. Alright, I'll get started here.

Speaker: Why can't you stop dancing? I, I just hear a beat and my body is hearing the beats. Wait, no, I can't stop dancing. You can't stop dancing 'cause my, because I, because my body can't still hear the beats, but there's no music playing. My friend there is, I'm pretending that there's. Oh, it's like in your head.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, so I can't stop dancing. But you're a really good dancer. Why? What does the music sound like? It sounds like, oh, yeah, I, I'm dancing. I'm dancing to the beat. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. I'm dancing to the beat. I'm dancing. I'm dancing. I'm dancing to the beat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that the song outside? There's zombie.

Whoa, whoa. I'm gonna go,

Speaker: oh, did you dance to so much you passed out? I'll tell you that somehow. Like the beat, like the pants. Okay. I lost all my hands was sanding in my hand. There's, then I, then I just dropped the dancing. Oh, the beat broke in your head. Yes. I just always, I just always, I just.

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