Simon Shuster is senior correspondent for Time. As a journalist working in both Russia and Ukraine for nearly two decades, he has watched and reported on the story of conflict between the two countries longer than many. His new book is The Showman: The Inside Story of the Invasion That Shook the World and Made a Leader of Volodymyr Zelensky. Shuster has had unprecedented access to the Ukrainian president over a pivotal period for global history, tracing his journey from comedian, actor and performer, to presidential hopeful, to war leader confronting Russian aggression. Joining Shuster in conversation for this episode is Carl Miller, co-founder of the Centre for the Analysis of Social Media at Demos. Miller is also an Associate of the Imperial War Museum and author of The Death of the Gods: The New Global Power Grab.

If you'd like to get access to all of our longer form interviews and members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

For £4.99 per month you'll also receive:

- Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts

- Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series

- 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events

- Our member-only newsletter The Monthly Read, sent straight to your inbox

...

Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99:

- Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts

- Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series

...

Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content, early access and much more

...

Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more.

https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices