Covet Pendemic Vaccines - Do No Harm?

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It's still striking to me how long it took us to do human challenge trials early in 20 20. We gained the vaccin so incredibly quickly relative to what the conventional wisdom was a few months into the pandamic. And that too, very clearly reflects sort of safety oriented bureacratic health care procedures.

Ross Douthat, a columnist for The New York Times, has long advocated for a brand of reform conservatism that stands in stark contrast to Trumpism. His latest book, The Deep Places: A Memoir of Illness and Discovery, chronicles his long struggle with Lyme disease.

In this week’s conversation, Ross Douthat and Yascha Mounk discuss why the expert consensus sometimes fails, when to listen to outsiders, and whether the failures of the establishment help to explain the rise of populism.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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