And I think as in so many of the Trump administration's efforts since he was inaugurated, this is about pushing the edge of the envelope because they chose a legal resident to go after first, not just somebody on a student visa. So I think that this expulsion or attempted expulsion is really about the First Amendment as much as it's about immigration. It's

true, Mara, but as I was thinking about this, like, yes, it's about immigration. It's about the First Amendment. But this particular case, to me, also seems to be in response to that wave of campus protests last year around the Israel-Hamas war. I mean, during the campaign, Trump pledged to quash all these protest debates, to throw people out of the country. And in that regard, he does seem to have some element of public support here.

Oh, yeah. We should have added one more thing. It's about immigration, the First Amendment, and it's about colleges. And especially elite colleges like Columbia have become part of Trump's enemies list. He recently moved to get rid of $400 million of federal funding that goes to Columbia because of these protests, which he has called anti-Semitic. And the campus protests were unpopular, not unlike some of the other targets that Trump has chosen first, like foreign aid, like people here without documentation, like anything that benefits trans people, faceless federal bureaucrats. I mean, these are politically popular targets.

All right, we're going to take a quick break, and we're going to talk more about this when we get back.