Seymour Seymour: I think for me I tend to look towards and find myself very fascinated by the innovation that like indeed was to just like ones that are kind of experimenting. He says there's so many other forces at play for why things have failed in the past, but it is still a treatment that needs to be applied to any new tools. Seymour: Would you like to take a side excursion into hypercard for a moment? Yes please.