Cultural Identity and the Evolution of Radicalization

In this episode, we take an in-depth look at the controversial Antifa movement, exploring its decentralized operations, anarchic structure, and the psychological tactics it employs to justify violence. We reveal insights from former members and draw parallels between Antifa's methods and historical fascist tactics. Additionally, we delve into the fervor surrounding conspiracy theories, anti-government sentiments, and the spiritual collectives forming within political groups, including those supporting Trump. Join us for a comprehensive exploration of these fascinating and complex topics.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today. I decided to do something interesting for this episode. I was like because I've noticed on a few of our videos. I've gone into a topic and I realized that our coverage of the topic is the most thorough coverage of a topic that I can find. And I decided to do the same thing with Antifa because it was just one of those things where I was like, I don't think anyone else has covered this.

You do

Simone Collins: this with your books too. Keep in mind whenever you write a book, it's typically because there's a subject that you don't feel is covered very well by anyone.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And so, I mean, I have, I've, I've heard of Antifa as a concept out of all of my deep dives.

Probably surprised me the most.

Simone Collins: Wow. Are you, are we going to join Antifa now? Is this the surprise? No, no, no.

Malcolm Collins: But the left is right. Remember there was that time when people on the left kept saying like Antifa is a conspiracy theory, Antifa doesn't exist. I, I don't know if you remember when this was like the mainstream talking point on the left.

Where they were [00:01:00] like, Antifa is made up, the right is attacking, you know, they're making up this fictional evil organization to attack, and the organization isn't a representation of anything real, and if you talked about Antifa, you would be labeled as a conspiracy theorist. This was during Trump's first run where the concept of Antifa was seen as a conspiracy.

And some people still hold to this line, but very few still do. Most people generally agree that Antifa is a real thing that exists. The problem is, is it's not. But, unfortunately, like, where my research sort of hit a wall to begin with, Is Antifa doesn't meaningfully exist, and yet it does meaningfully exist.

So and we have multiple members are people who follow this podcast or hang out in our discord who are former Antifa members like reformed Antifa members.

Microphone (3- ATR2100x-USB Microphone): This video actually ends with about a 30 minute interview of one of these. Followers of ours, who used to be in Antifa about [00:02:00] what happens at Antifa meetings, the way Antifa organizes and just a general . Logistics. Of Antifa operations.

Would you like to know more

Malcolm Collins: And so what I mean when I say Antifa doesn't really exist is twofold. One, there is no centralized Antifa organization. There is no group that has a, and two, there is no centralized Antifa ideology.

Simone Collins: Okay. So you don't get a membership card. There is no president. There's no nonprofit organization. There is no

Malcolm Collins: barrier to entry. Literally anyone can just say I'm Antifa or sort of

Simone Collins: anarchic. I am anonymous, et cetera.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Anyone, anyone know anonymous was quite different. There were some organized power hierarchies where people can go.

And there were like, it might be that anyone can technically claim to be anonymous, but there actually are. Individuals who are disproportionately [00:03:00] influencers in the actions of what we call anonymous was in Antifa. There appears to be like, if I'm even just looking for like one famous, like important individual was in Antifa.

There's going to be much fewer of them. The, the flatness of the organizations is much, much bigger than it is with Anonymous. But in addition to that, the discordant views and goals of the people who are within Antifa are Hugely various as we're going to go over in just a second. All that Antifa really is, in fact, I would say Antifa is less of a unified idea than something like the alt right.

Which is what Antifa really sort of emerged to mirror. But. It went further than the alt right ever did, and it represents what I would call a psychological technology. Or a, specifically, it's a technology that gives individuals a psychological license to do [00:04:00] violence against moderates of the other side.

So, what it means when somebody says they're Antifa, like, what fundamentally are they telling you? They're saying They believe that they have a psychological license and the moral justification to act upon a center right MAGA dad the way they would treat a literal Nazi at a, at a concentration camp.

Simone Collins: Oh, I get it. Okay. Okay. So yeah, Antifa is to scary, violent, political extremists. as to borderline personality disorder is to c**t.

Malcolm Collins: I don't understand.

Simone Collins: Well, when someone says that they have borderline personality disorder, they're really saying they're just a c**t. Right. It's

Malcolm Collins: true. I mean, it's true, but that's not really the point I'm making here.

What I'm making here is what Antifa is and what is conveyed by the concept is [00:05:00] I am allowed to treat half of America the way I would treat a human being. concentration camp guard. That is, that is where punch a Nazi comes from. That's where all this comes from. And that's what I'm going to make in this episode is Antifa will say one thing.

They will say we fight against fascists, right? But then if you look at their actions, what they consider fascist is generic center right, or even center left capitalist.

Simone Collins: Now that's interesting, I was watching an interview between Lex Friedman and the guy who founded Young Turks, co founded Young Turks, who was actually framing things very differently.

He was saying that he was a capitalist. He was very in favor of capitalism, but against corporatism, which we kind of 100 percent agree with. And I kind of wonder if that's true, if people who consider themselves far leftists actually favor capitalism and what they're against is corporatism, so what [00:06:00] you're really saying is that they're against corporatists?

Okay. Just no. Just they like capitalism. They are. So they're Marxist.

Malcolm Collins: You'll see really quickly how extremists they are. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, first I'm going to give you how they frame themselves, right? So you can understand how this psychological framing trick works.

Simone Collins: Okay.

. So according to a member of a New York Antifa group, quote and this is who they target, fascists, alt right, white nationalists, etc. . And the main focus is on quote, groups and individuals which endorse or work directly or in alliance with white supremacists and white separatists. We try to be very clear and precise on how we use these terms, end quote.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. And so, if you're looking at like what ideologies do Antifa members usually hold is generally anti authoritarian, anti capitalist, anti fascist and anti state views. And they're generally left wing ideologies and they'll also do things like support, [00:07:00] you know, LGBT rights and stuff like that in general, lefty urban monoculture causes, like they're known for going to trans book readings to children with guns to try to intimidate. whoever might show up at those So let's get to an example of this. So you've heard like who they say that they're fighting right now. Let's look at who they actually fight. During Berkeley protests on August 27th, 2017, an estimated 100 Antifa and anarchist protesters joined a crowd of 2000 to 4, 000 other protesters to confront.

A demonstration that had showed up for a say no to Marxism rally. So they, and, and this is the way the, So they're not Marxist,

Simone Collins: they hate capitalism and they hate Marxism.

Malcolm Collins: No, what they went to this event,

Simone Collins: Oh, they were protesting the people who didn't want Marxism.

Malcolm Collins: was say no to Marxism. So they say, and this is the psychological trip of Antifa.

They say we're against fascists. They say we're [00:08:00] against white nationalists. They say we're against Nazis, but what they actually end up attacking is people who are protesting against America becoming a Marxist country.

Simone Collins: Yeah, because this whole thing, the definition you read earlier, where it was like, we're very, very, very specifically against white nationalists, anti Semites, like, I'm hearing this and I'm thinking, okay, they're actually describing a group of maybe 800 people in the US.

You know, this is not bad. Okay, fine.

Malcolm Collins: Fascists is 50%. Or more of America, probably 70 percent of Americans they consider fascist. And what do they think these fascists deserve? Like how does this psychological trick work? So this, it took place at the Say No to Marxism rally. So this is just somebody arguing against an ideology.

That has literally killed more humans than any ideology in history. Like, you know, if you look at like the great leap forward, just five years of communism killed arguably more people, depending on the stats you're looking at than the entire American slave trade, [00:09:00] like. That is absolutely insane, the scale of death that can be attributed to Marxism.

And people say, Oh, that's not real Marxism. Well, what do you think they weren't trying? Like they were trying. It's just, it always devolves into this. This is why people are protesting it. Right.

Simone Collins: I don't care how well you mean with anything. If you hurt children, if you put children in harm's way with your policies, then you're bad.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah. That's why Marxists are right, because they put children in harm's way, but they're, they're not protesting equality. They're protesting what always happens when people try to achieve equality using this mechanism. But what did Antifa think people deserve? Okay. So, this is one individual named Clayton attacked, and this was at the anti Marx rally.

Just protesting Marxism, Clayton attacked people with a metal U lock during the April 15th rally around the Civic Center Park. Court papers later revealed that Clayton struck at least seven people in the head, according to authorities. One person received a head latheration that required five staples to fix.

Another was uninjured but had a piece of helmet broken off. [00:10:00] He broke a helmet. And a third was struck across the neck and back. So this guy was going in for the kill.

Simone Collins: Thank goodness the person was wearing a helmet.

Malcolm Collins: And I'll, and I'll have pictures of this, like this is bloody and horrifying.

Why did he feel that he had the right to attack an Anti Marxism is something that, like, 70 percent of Americans probably broadly agree with.

Like, this is mainstream, even moderate leftism. Why did he feel he had the right to do that? Because he had built an ideology that psychologically equated anyone who is not a Marxist as a Nazi. And that was the only way he could think of them. It strips the humanization of the mainstream other. And I would say, I actually don't have a problem with political violence against extremists.

If they are the type of individual that is advocating for direct and actual, not like made up lefty [00:11:00] violence where they're like words or violence, but like actual violence. Like, I am okay with like actual political violence against somebody flying a Nazi flag out. Or somebody flying an antifa flag. I mean, they're in the same category of person. , you know, your actual Nazi Nazi is willing to attack like center right individuals. If they felt that they had the ability to get away with it. It's the same with Antifa. They're really equivalent groups. And the thing that's so funny about Antifa is Antifa does this thing that they call black shirting.

Where they go around in, in, in these black outfits, where they say it so people can't tell their identity. There's lots of ways you could cover your identity. You know who the black shirts were? And I love that Antifa don't seem to be aware of this. Or maybe they, they are and they just hide it. The black shirts were Mussolini's fascist troopers.

The Nazis were copying with the brown shirts. They literally use gangs of people in black shirts who covered their faces to attack crowds. That is the slightly [00:12:00] awkward fascist came to power.

Speaker: When Mussolini finally marched on Rome in 1922, he did so with an army of blackshirts at his side. Blackshirts were a paramilitary force who, as their name implies, wore black shirts. That's pretty on the nose. Mussolini used this army to evoke terror, both domestically and abroad. From the earliest days of the fascist party in Italy, Mussolini's black shirts worked to get rid of any opposition.

The black shirt's motto was Minifrego, or I don't care. And points for honesty, because they really didn't care.

Speaker 2: Get the f**k up! Fear is

Speaker 3: a part of our tactics. It's our job to go out there and say, No, we're not going to allow you to spread these ideas. Philadelphia,

Speaker 2: make it clear!

Speaker 4: Organizations all across the country and all across the world. Black people.[00:13:00]

Speaker 3: A block or block is just what we wear. It's entirely black, simple, non identifying clothing.

Speaker: Once the fascists went from being an urban phenomenon to a wider Italian force, they then went after peasant leaders in the countryside, showing aggression towards any potential challengers in villages, communities, and farms.

and towns throughout the peninsula.

Speaker 5: When me and Brad first met, I didn't think we'd get along, but turns out we kind of agree on everything. Your racial identity is the most important thing! Everything should be looked at through the lens of race! Jinx, you owe me a coke. We both think minorities are a united group who think the same and act the same. And vote the same. You don't want to lose your black card. Sorry, I don't know, I just think we should Roll back discrimination law so we can hire Basie and race against Jinx!

Now you owe me a Coke. Hey, tell him what you told me yesterday. White actors should only do voices for white cartoon characters. I've been saying that for years.

Malcolm Collins: And, and if you think that this group isn't fascist, one of the things that I always point out is, you know, we've got to have some clips here from the woke versus racist thing

Far [00:14:00] left has just become might call this horsesho rank human beings on a sca human dignity based on th say we don't do this, but mainstream policy like in and this is recommended by the CDC that vaccines that they thought were saving people's lives.

At least they, they, they assume this were distributed, not based just on need, but also based on how discriminated an ethnic group was his score historically. And of course, they don't mean how really discriminated. I mean, obviously, Jews would be pretty discriminated if that's what they were looking at.

Speaker 5: Black people should only shop at black businesses. I guess the only thing we really disagree about is I think white people are the root of all evil.

But what did I tell you, though? If we can narrow that down to a certain group of tiny headed white people, I think we can come to an understanding. Technically, I don't consider Jewish people white because Neither do I. But we're still cool with interracial cucking, right? Yeah, as long as you pay for it.

Sex work should be celebrated.

Malcolm Collins: What they mean is the [00:15:00] lefty value hierarchy of which races matter and which races don't like which ones deserve human dignity, which don't. And now that the lefts have gone like anti Jew and they're like, no, we're not Jew. We're anti Zionist. And I'm like, well, depending on the study, you're looking at us like 89 to like 95 percent of Jews are, are Zionist.

And it's like, of course they would believe that they need a state to be safe. Like look at their history. And, and, and. I was like, I'm not anti christian. I'm just anti those people who say Jesus was the son of God. It's like, well, I mean, that's a pretty big overlapping Venn diagram there, buddy. But so they now, you know, they, they, they, they, they now believe that humans should be sorted based on their ethnic group with some accorded more human dignity than others.

And at the very top of this is the Jews and, and, and, and. I also love that, like, if you actually look, like, just mainstream Democrats are going so cashy now they're, I, I, I, I love that they're like, we are all about, like, election integrity when the right's like, yeah, but, like, you know that something probably [00:16:00] happened, right?

Like, there's just too many fires at this point, you know, belief, and they're like, nah, our party isn't anti democratic, and I'm like, you literally cancelled your own primaries, like, your party's leaders are just appointed by a committee of elites. Now they don't even talk to you and you didn't protest.

Antifa didn't go to protest that Kamala was just dictatorially assorted.

Simone Collins: They haven't heard anything about Antifa recently, actually. Has there been any Antifa activity recently?

Malcolm Collins: We'll get into that in just a second. But I love that they're just like, voting is like now antithetical. Like, this is a woman who, by the way, for people who claim to care about Black Lives Matter in one of the incidents that left thousands of Black people, and she admitted this later because she did let them out not telling them about a lab leak in the drug lab in jail who should have been freed so she could get the police commission support to win an election cycle.

And then later the Supreme Court said that her prison system was a human rights violation [00:17:00] and her department argued back, I'm sorry we can't release anyone because we're using them right now for fire duty for mandatory work, even though it would have been cheaper to hire them. Like, she thinks like a fascist.

In every sense of the term, it is the party of fascism. Now, unironically, there was one person who's like, you could argue that she's more fascist than Trump. And I'm like, you have to be so brainwashed, so brainwashed to not see this at this point. It is, it is, it is comical that you have black shirts out there going out and beating up peaceful protests, protesting Marxism.

But I want to get further because there's a Antifa that go around. One is that Antifa has never been connected with anyone dying. This is just factually untrue. Reynold 48 is considered the prime suspect in the august 2020 killing of 39 year old Aaron J. Danielson, a right wing activist who was shot in the demonstration in Portland.

And yeah, so there was

Simone Collins: one likely death that [00:18:00] described

Malcolm Collins: himself in a social media post as 100 percent Antifa and because Antifa is an opt in organization, you know, obviously, yeah. And there have been some other instances we're going to get in where Antifa has definitely tried to kill people. They're just, Pretty incompetent, but they keep trying to kill people as

Simone Collins: though I get the impression that at protests, some people just show up because they feel like, Oh, it's that event format where I have licensed to vandalize things and hurt.

Oh, no, no.

Malcolm Collins: So Antifa is quite different from like, if you consider like the January six protesters or something like that like the negative actions that largely came out of that were. Like mistake where if you look at Antifa, they're showing up at stuff was like Molotov cocktails. Yeah, but

Simone Collins: that's what I'm saying.

The, the people who show up to protests because they feel like that they want, they just want by default to vandalize and do family things. No, that's

Malcolm Collins: clearly not the case. There are some people who show up. Do you think this is

Simone Collins: very politically motivated? They're not doing this because they want to. To hurt someone, and this is [00:19:00] just a nice excuse to, because it's like a purge night.

Trump

Malcolm Collins: supporters aren't bringing bombs to events, and that's what we're going to go over. They're not trying to blow up things. No, but you're not, you're still not answering

Simone Collins: my question. What I'm saying is, does this not really have to do that much? With a political motivation and more to do with just a desire to wreak havoc and be violent.

Malcolm Collins: No, that's the exact point I keep making. It literally doesn't have to do with that. If you wanted to wreak havoc and, and, and, and do violent stuff, you, most people, like most human beings, even if they have a background desire to do something like that, they believe that other humans have human dignity, right?

Like, you need a psychological motivation. Cool. That allows this A and B, it's not like they're showing up to recreationally cause violence. If like the opportunity, like I think that this is, this is the missed narrative about Antifa that has been successfully distributed to the mainstream audience.

Uhhuh is that Antifa members go to events and [00:20:00] sometimes things accidentally get heated. And we will go over evidence that that is obviously not what's happening. Okay.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Alright, so I'm gonna go further into the history of Antifa in the United States of here and stuff like that. So in the oldest group, to use the term Antifa in the United States is Rose City Antifa in Portland, Oregon, founded in 2007.

So it's a fairly modern movement that's very new. Yeah. That they come from a German movement that has existed since the Nazi times, but this is. Factually inaccurate. The original movement that they claim to be descended from was shut down as the Nazis rose and integrated into the Nazi party. And so, like, that's not yeah, they're definitely not descended from that movie.

There was a movement in Germany that started fairly recently, but not. Um, And then there's another movement in the US which they could be descended from that we'll get to in a second. One of their biggest sort of things that they're known for is their attacks on the Charlottesville Unite the Right rally in [00:21:00] August 2017.

Where they and at the rally, there were genuinely white supremacists who went to the rally. No, this is

Simone Collins: the famous tiki torch khakis. And

Malcolm Collins: this is the problem with the way the left works. They're like, if you're a free speech organization and you let one person with X ideology show up at your event, then we have a moral license to treat everyone at your event as if they hold that ideology.

where more for them. This is just because they know that if they're exposed to an ideology, they just immediately capitulate to it, which is why they don't let ideologies they don't like at their events because they have much less like psychological and moral framing. This is something that you told me that really made this hit home for me.

The reason why people on the right aren't afraid of having a Nazi, like, come to their event when they're not a Nazi, right, is because I'm not afraid of becoming a Nazi because a Nazi comes to my event. However, I do think I might convince a Nazi to not be a Nazi anymore. Yeah, so, [00:22:00] all the better if they show

Simone Collins: up.

Malcolm Collins: Yes, and you would want them to show up if you wanted less Nazis and you're not a Nazi.

None: But, if

Malcolm Collins: you hold a very weak psychological framework that you believe you only hold because the people around you hold it, Then it's really dangerous to have a Nazi show up at your event.

And I, I feel like that's where a lot of these leftist ideologies come from is that there's some subconscious understanding of how close they are to just being Nazis, but they've changed a few words.

Speaker 5: Ask him about interracial dating. All I said is that black men who date white women have internalized racism, and white men that date ethnic women are fetishizing them.

Guy's against interracial dating now. Like, am I being pranked? Did Boomer put you up to this? Ugh, you know that taco place is white owned? White people should be making white foods, like crap macaroni and cheese, no seasoning, not even salt. It's like he's a mind reader. I mean, I've been pushing for segregation forever and my man does what?

Malcolm Collins: Again, I'm going to show that skit here. There was the Berkeley protests, which I mentioned there, there was the inauguration day protests that were associated with Antifa. These are in, in, in 2017. There was the Portland protest where Antifa [00:23:00] groups were involved in multiple clashes like the Patriot Prayer and Proud Boys in Portland, Oregon.

And Proud Boys are a very centrist group. Like, they're like, oh, the racist Proud Boys. I'm like, the group is a black guy running it? Like, what? You guys have so, like, lost the, the the ship here at this point. Or, and, and, and this is Lost

Simone Collins: the ship? You mean missed the boat?

Malcolm Collins: Missed the boat. Yes. And then there's the ice facility attack in 2019.

And this is one of those things I'm talking about where William Van Spencer and Antifa agent attacked an immigration and customs enforcement detention facility in Tacoma, Washington. Mm-Hmm. was a rifle and attempted to ignite a propane tank before being killed by police. Oh my gosh. So, like, they are looking, this isn't like, again, what I'm telling you, this isn't just individuals who are out there and lose control of the situation.

This is individuals who, due to their dehumanization of mainstream Americans, are willing to, like, blow up buildings because they don't care who gets hurt. They're just like, ah, [00:24:00] well, chances are they're one of these non human Nazis, right? Now, for people who are wondering, the name Antifa and the logo of two flags represent anarchism and communism.

And they're derived from the German movement. The Mark Berry, the author of Antifa, the anti fascist handbook, credits anti fascist action or ARA as a precursor of the modern Antifa groups in the United States. And I did some research on this group and they are very similar in what they were focused on and stuff like that.

 So, Antifa is most active right now in the Pacific Northwest in Portland, Oregon, and they were primarily active from like 2016 to 2018. And you might say, why don't we see much Antifa stuff happening right now?

Malcolm Collins: I think it's because largely most of the people who are part of Antifa Have had moments of like self reflection and kind of grown up. I mean, there's a reason like a number of our audience comes from this community. I think going out and doing one of these actions, they had genuinely, like the people involved [00:25:00] in Antifa genuinely thought that when they told people that they attacked somebody at a anti Marxist rally, because they assumed that that person was a Nazi, that those people would be like, oh yeah, good for you, you attacked a Nazi with a bike lock.

Instead of, oh, you attacked random anti Marxist with a bike lock? Like, they, they thought that this psychological trick that was working in their mind was going to work in the media, and it absolutely did not. It made them a great boogeyman for, you know, most of online culture. The people who caught.

The bike lock attacker guy, cause he was going to get away with this. You know, the police weren't doing anything about this, was 4chan. And there is a great video, I believe by internet historian on this where he goes into how they found the guy. And it is a really interesting story.

Speaker 7: April 15th, lest we forget, was one of the biggest PvP battles in recent history. Red Pill Alliance versus Antifa Horde. [00:26:00] Outside of the battlefield, GMs and mods stood around doing nothing. Hey, how come you guys are hanging back?

 But then, a rogue comes forward. He pops out of stealth, boom! Cheap shot. 900 critical damage and stunned for 2 seconds.

That's a nice mace. Check that out, oh yeah, level 90 bike lock, plus 40 strength with a 50 percent proc bleed enchant. The rogue uses vanish and slinks back into the crowd. Shaun is seriously hurt. He finds a priest in time, but he needs a trip to the hospital. And several stitches. Jokes aside, this is assault with a deadly weapon.

This guy should be Locked up. I'm sorry. During the night, Pol was working busily. They saw what had happened and they were outraged by it. They unholstered their autism and aimed it squarely at the masked man. The hunt was on. They broke down every [00:27:00] bit of footage they could. They found this man, who matched every detail.

. And then this footage surfaced. Wear his mask. Slipped off,

bingo. Turns out he's a teacher's assistant at a local university specializing in ethics and moral philosophy. The state has a monopoly on how we conceal justice. So for now, he's just another name to add to Paul's new Antifa database.

Malcolm Collins: No, if we're talking again about the types of groups that they end up attacking, right? And this is, this is, this is what I keep coming back to. So, a group called the Direct Action Alliance declared, quote, fascist plan to march through the streets, end quote, and warned, quote, Nazis will march through Portland unopposed, end quote.

The alliance said it didn't object to the Mohammed Moltmann, GOP itself. But to quote unquote fascists who plan to infiltrate its rakes, yet it denounced marchers with quote [00:28:00] unquote Trump facts and quote unquote MAGA hats or red MAGA hats as fascists. So this is the way the psychological trick works. Mm.

Simone Collins: So if you, you support Trump, you are fascist. So half of Americans at any given time, roughly fascist.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Oh, oh, wow. And so how do they do this? Well, they really like to you know, they'll do things like gun clubs showing up at stuff. They'll do things like doxing. They'll do things like mass reporting, YouTube videos.

They'll do things like obviously direct acts of terrorism. Really anything they, they can get away was doing an important thing to remember about Antifa is their organization is very, very poor. Which means that they're more just. A representation of a mindset than a representation of

Simone Collins: yeah, almost like a social template, which is interesting in that it can be very antifragile.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah now example, when I was talking about, like, planned destructive acts. In 2020 protests in [00:29:00] Portland, a federal courthouse led to Antifa members undertaking a coordinated blockade of federal, state, and local enforcements, and an attempt to fire bomb the courthouse. Oh. A significant number of law enforcement and government personnel.

Simone Collins: Oh, so okay. Organized firebombing of government buildings. That's pretty big. Are they also responsible? I know that during the, the Black Lives Matter protest era. There were some police buildings that were burned down, if memory serves. Was that Antifa or was that just protesters going crazy? I mean,

Malcolm Collins: did the people, like, why did they think it was okay to burn down a police department?

And this is, I think, the better way to understand Antifa. Is Antifa can be thought of as anyone who is dehumanizing, you know, a large group of people like this. Okay. So, for example, functionally, the all cops are b*****d, ACAB, is another form of Antifa. It's saying, I [00:30:00] have a moral license to do whatever I want to any police officer.

To any police property it's what Antifa represents as a moral license to treat normal humans and average citizens the way you would treat the most extreme and dangerous individuals who maybe ever existed that they have begun to align themselves with ideologically. They just use different words to hide that from themselves.

And I'd also say to the Trump quote, because I want to read the full Trump quote here in response to Charlottesville, because it was a really well thought out, like, well structured quote, and everyone's always like, oh, the bad people on both sides, and it's like, no, fine people on both sides. Equally bad people.

Very

Simone Collins: fine people.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, there really were equally bad people on both sides. Yeah. So you had some very bad people in the group, but you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group. And then later he goes on to say, I'm not talking about the neo Nazis and the white [00:31:00] nationalists because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in the group other than neo Nazis and white nationalists, end quote. He also stated, quote, You had a group on one side that was bad, and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent.

Nobody wants to say it, but I will say it right now, end quote. Completely accurate. And, and, and this is the problem with the far left, they cannot see the evil that has infiltrated their own ranks. And it's because, when we talk about moral license, that show that you told me about, that I'll play a clip from here, that's like a popular lefty show.

The Good Fight.

Speaker 11: Three weeks ago, Henry Roberts raised six million dollars in dark money to fund an off the books guerrilla oppo operation. He asked me to run it. Nobody seems to be willing to do what is necessary.

And what's that? Whatever it takes. Democrats act like this is the nineties and they're working under the old rules. The new rules are these attack, lie, [00:32:00] don't get caught. Machiavelli wrote the Prince for the rulers.

Well, we're rewriting it for us.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, that basically says we now have a moral license to lie, to cheat, to do whatever we want in these election cycles because they have made up all of these things that Republicans are doing. And this is one of the things that you apparently has been a big shift for you, is you're realizing that all these things you believed about Republicans growing up as a far lefty are actually more like aspirational lefty things and aren't true about the right at all.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: We

Simone Collins: were talking this morning about how, I think you grew up with this impression too, that Republicans had a truly amazing ground game at the local level that when they could not win at the national level for president, for example, they decided to invest really heavily in local politicians, state reps, to a certain extent, members of the [00:33:00] House and Senate.

Just to really win those local games and sort of control that level of policy, which is quite influential. You can really Shift the trajectory of our country, just looking at local policies. But that is, it could not be more opposite the case when you actually look in practice, at least now at what's happening with the Democrat party locally and with Republican parties locally, Republican parties across the United States are for the most part, not there.

And to whatever extent the Republican party supports politicians, it is only a few flagship. Federal level politicians, everyone else is completely ignored. It is a very different story at the local level among Democrats running. They are getting immense party support. They're getting tons of funds and they're getting.

Very different treatment. Just the, the Democrat party's together and it has the ground game. So it's completely the opposite picture, which really [00:34:00] surprised me. And that's just one example of things that

Malcolm Collins: you, well, I mean, I think a great second example that I always see is, is Democrats these days really seem to believe the right to be like the anti democratic faction.

They're like, Oh, you know, look at the Jan six protests and stuff like that. Right. Like that, that was an anti democratic thing when those people were there. Because they believed, and I, I literally, like, I live in a country where I can't say they believed this was evidence. That would make it impossible for you to hear this.

If I presented any evidence, you wouldn't be able to see it. The video would immediately be taken down. So I, I say, they believed without a shred of evidence, a shred of real evidence, okay? Because that's what I have to say in this environment that we live in, in this world of Thought Police that the election had been undemocratically stolen and that they were protesting that.

And, and the left pretend that [00:35:00] this was them trying to steal an election when, like, there's been no reflection on, Did they just do that?

Microphone (3- ATR2100x-USB Microphone)-1: And if you're like, oh, the Democrats would never do something like this. . Keep in mind that just before the GM. protests. You had the May 30th protests. , which was associated with Antifa and the BLM movement and in it. , protestors . CJ, the white house leading to a temporary lockdown. , with over 60 secret service agents being injured, , with president Trump being taken to an underground bunker for his safety. , where, , there was serious property damage and graffiti and vandalism and, where the DC national guard was called to assist. So. It's wild that you hear about one of these events and people were put in jail for like five, six years for one of these events and the other one just everyone's completely led off scot-free and we pretend like it never happened.

And it's just because of who controls our media.

Microphone (3- ATR2100x-USB Microphone)-5: If your response to this is these [00:36:00] two protests are nothing alike. Because the Antifa members didn't successfully break into the white house.

The problem was this line of argument, is that the Jan six protestors? Did not break into the Capitol building either. It was the law enforcement itself that removed the barriers. So most of the people who are sitting in jail today for quote unquote, breaking into the Capitol building, had no idea that there were ever any barriers there and was just peacefully following a crowd of other protestors who were walking through the Capitol building.

There was no way for most of them to know that they were not allowed to be there. And I think when you look at the actions of Antifa, you see that in part, what ended up damning the Jan six protestors. It's that they were much more obviously a peaceful group. And so it made sense, for example, for the guards to remove the barriers and let them in where the Antifa group, it was very obvious.

If they got into the white house, people would start getting murdered.

Malcolm Collins: Like, and this is one of those things that you actually have [00:37:00] only really recently come around on. And what, what caused you to come around on it? Cause I was like, I just, like, I can't.

Simone Collins: There was nothing you could say that would convince me that there were election wiggles taking place. And then obviously running for state rep in Pennsylvania, I've met with a lot of people who've done a total huge, huge amount of local volunteering for the Republican party and for Republican candidates who've seen a lot of really weird things known Democrat operatives dumping large numbers of Mail in ballots, ballot drop boxes on election day.

In the United States, it's not, you're not authorized to collect for people mail in ballots. You as a voter have to submit it yourself, either mailing it in or dropping it yourself in a box. Seeing really weird blips and changes in votes for example, in many local elections. Elections, they would see a Republican [00:38:00] candidate ahead by, you know, a significant number of points.

And then instantly that lead just immediately flips to the Democrat party and exactly the same number of votes. Just go, what happened? Just a lot of weird things like that. Well, I think

Malcolm Collins: it's, it's, it's, it's something that you just see over and over and over again. But if you're a party that believes what was said in that show,

Speaker 11: The new rules are these attack, lie, don't get caught. Machiavelli wrote the Prince for the rulers.

Well, we're rewriting it for us.

Malcolm Collins: that we now have to lie, that we now have to cheat, that we now have to do whatever is necessary to win.

And when you think about what happened

Simone Collins: with Trump derangement syndrome, and it's really starting to settle in with me, there are a lot of people, even very competent, smart, educated, rational people who have just concluded that a system under Trump [00:39:00] is just so unimaginably bad that almost anything is justified to ensure that he Does not come into power again that and or that the system is so corrupt that if that's how the system is going to be, then the only way for them to operate within it.

Is to lie and cheat and steal, but they're kind of defining corrupt as in, I didn't win which is not ideal.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I don't always control everything is what corrupt is. And I think that this is, it's, it's, it's, and when we talk about like anti democratic, I just, I genuinely can't believe it. The mainstream democratic sentiment has become so anti democratic that they just stopped hosting their primaries and nobody f ing cared.

That is the weirdest thing I have ever seen. To the human embodiment of everything that BLM was protesting against. Like, I don't know. That is so weird. Oh, Kamala

Simone Collins: Harris being the human [00:40:00] embodiment of that.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, it's She represents putting black people in prison for her own, you know, ability to win. Using prison labor, not releasing people despite the Supreme Court saying that they should be released.

Not, you know, letting Police off who had had a dangerous like shooting cases, and then there was some government corruption cases where she, you know, was very unfair and how she handled that, where you have her running mate being the guy who was arresting people in his state for leaving their houses during COVID and then created a snitch line so your neighbors could call on you leaving your house during COVID.

Like the level of just COVID 19. embodiment of fascism that this now shows and it's, and then they're, and they just completely fictionalized who they're fighting against. It's a complete fiction. Like the Republican National Convention doesn't even define marriage as a man and a woman in, in their, in their like mainstream party positions anymore.

Like [00:41:00] that's the different nanas that were still pretending like this is anything other than a genuinely fascist party and the party that's trying to save America for descending into fascism. And I would

Simone Collins: think that we were delusional, but even other people in the space, not necessarily beholden to any particular party have commented that in the debate, even that recently took place, the most recent presidential debate.

Oh, well, yeah, no, there's a suspicion of colluding, but actually what people have been saying is that Kamala definitely comes across as the more right wing candidate. So that's interesting. I don't really know what to make of it. I, I had come into this thinking that Antifa was more about anarchy and more about chaos and more about violence.

It doesn't come as a surprise to me that there isn't any Formal, there's no organization with a tax identification number that raises funds and [00:42:00] has, you know, a meeting and membership cards that, you know, but yeah, that, that it's actually very Marxist and that it's actually. Well,

Malcolm Collins: no,

Simone Collins: it's defining anyone.

Malcolm Collins: I think what they are is they are the ground forces. They are the radicalized, every man who thinks it's okay to kill a random supporter of the right, right? Like any random Trump supporter so that they can, you know, yes, we have a one party in this country that's controlled the elites. They control almost every company in this country.

They control almost. Every major source of power in this country. They don't hold elections anymore. They just choose who's going to win their primaries. They represent, you know, the, the, the mass incarceration of black people. They represent the mass and corporate corporation. They create the maladies that then they use to radicalize their own supporters to go and attack the people who are fighting against this [00:43:00] elitist fascistic system.

And genuinely, this might be our last chance to stop them. Because it's becoming increasingly clear to me that they really just do not value elections anymore. That voting is no longer one of the core values of the left. It's right. Think wrong. Think like that's it. There is that and it scares me.

It scares me to be in a country That is this close to the edge. And all we need to do is win a few election cycles and outweigh them. They're not having kids. They have tried to mass convert ours. But like, if you look at Jin Alpha's sentiments they've already lost this game. You know, we just need to wait for them to come into the voting bloc.

And I will note for the conservatives. Who are confused and think Gin Alpha is because there's still some like theocratic, like, you know, big business, a holdout conservatives before big business went far left. And they think when Gin Alpha is going right, that the Gin Alpha is like becoming like ortho bros or something.

No, they're becoming [00:44:00] the new right. They're right like we are right. They're not right like you are right. They're like pro gay right. They're like, you know, Yeah. They, they are, they are not the right of the old theocrat. They are the right of the genuinely anti fascist faction of the right that's trying to stop this increasing takeover of our government by this elitist faction, which is hiding information for people.

Now, one thing I want to make absolutely clear, so no one can misconstrue us as arguing this, there was definitely no election fraud. None happened at all. Everything was above board. The people at January 6th were monstrous terrorists who definitely arresting them and throwing them in jail was the right thing to do.

So I don't want any misunderstanding that I, I, I, I said, or I endorsed any other view. We were just making hypothetical arguments that some people might make. Don't you agree, Simone? [00:45:00] It's all hypothetical that we're talking here. Like all of these like hypothetical people we're talking about is just like how someone on the right might come to believe these things.

Not that this is actually happening.

Simone Collins: Exactly.

Microphone (3- ATR2100x-USB Microphone)-2: So I have an interview here is one of our fans who

Microphone (3- ATR2100x-USB Microphone)-6: Was in Antifa.

Microphone (3- ATR2100x-USB Microphone)-2: So I'm really excited to share this with you guys. I will say that there are audio issues with the audio as much louder than mine. And I lacked the technical competence to equalize this. I have tried a number of different programs and it doesn't seem to be working.

And because we publish daily, I just have to bite the bullet on this one.

So either. You find the information interesting and you listen to it or you can always just hop off. I mean, you've got the full episode already that we had intended to publish. This is one of the downsides of hosting a daily show. , you don't always have time to fix every issue you run into.

Microphone (3- ATR2100x-USB Microphone)-3: And if you're wondering, what's your proof that this guy was in anti-fat, this guy has Antifa dates tattooed very visibly on his arm. , that would be quite a thing to go in to just pretend to have been a very dedicated member [00:46:00] of Antifa.

Malcolm Collins: Hello. I am excited to be here with a guest right now.

So in the episode that you just heard, we talk about how Antifa is used more like a moral license than a specific organization. However, that doesn't mean that specific organizations that operate it. Under the name, Antifa do not do significant operations in cities and stuff like that. And I thought to bring on one of our podcast listeners who used to be an Antifa member and is now doing some work in terms of building.

knowledge about what actually goes on with them and stuff like that. And you have a podcast as well, which is

Ty: build baby build with Ty King. You can find it on YouTube. Hopefully soon truth as well.

Malcolm Collins: Great. You know, that's the Brian Kaplan book that just came out, right?

Ty: Oh, is that the name? Oh, yeah, because when I type in Build Baby Build, he's the other Build Baby Build that types up.

Yeah, it's taken from an old Martin Luther King quote. It's essentially, we shouldn't burn baby [00:47:00] burn, we should build baby build. And, essentially, we need to stay away from riotous behavior and violence, in my estimation. Cause, it doesn't work. So

Malcolm Collins: what I am most interested in, and I know what, like, I would mostly, and I think most people would most like to know is one, when people are going to like Antifa meetings, for example, what is being talked about?

How are they structured? How do they like communicate with each other?

Ty: There's varying degrees, right? You know, whenever I think of Antifa, I'm trying to break this more nuanced over time, but I think of, so far, the wannabes versus the devotees.

Think of the devotees as your avowed communists, or those that are there for the war, they're there for the action, they're there to get in the fight. Those are your devotees. They know kind of what comes with the territory. The wannabes are kind of like your rainbow haired trans kids that come in with the Antifa flag, and they're there because, They hate Nazis.

They support certain policies, but they don't really know what they're engaged with. So kind of in the same way Hamas uses Palestinians, they're the [00:48:00] human shields for the actual people within Antifa to operate. So more often than not, they're the 1st ones that will be arrested. If the action is called to by police and violence breaks out on both sides, the wannabes will often be the 1st to get hit, tackled, punched, arrested.

So that way people within the devoted class can look and be like, see. This is what we told you this is happening. And as far as the meetings, I never got into any higher up structure to where I could go to any higher up meetings. I know that that's a thing I've heard whispers, but a lot of it is on the ground coaching.

It's you go into these environments and they groom you on. This is what you say. If the police come, this is what you say in certain instances.

Malcolm Collins: When you say these environments, are these, like, subgroups that are happening at a, like, a protest, or is it like, you go to somebody's house or an office or something?

Ty: Yes, yes, and yes. And particularly parties. So that's the thing, is it so nuanced. Here in Eugene talking to people that I know down in Texas or on the East Coast, [00:49:00] Oregon has become such a radically indifferent environment to where post antifa and black lives matter. There really is a different environment.

Every one here that I've been talking to lately is supporting the Trump assassination. Everyone wants every Nazi killed and arrested. Everyone supports every trans ideology under the sun. So the environment here in this town and Eugene Springfield and in Portland particularly is everywhere you go. You talk about these things, so you don't really need one central rallying meetup point.

It's more about talking within your own circles, sending off text, sending off whatever have you. It's really as simple as you can meet someone in a bar, have a drink with them. And by the end of that drink, you're exchanging informations. You think you're on the same page and this guy's telling you, Hey, be here Wednesday at three o'clock.

I'll meet you there. And then we'll figure out things from there. It is so broad and diverse in its tactics. And,

Malcolm Collins: so it's really organic. It's it's what Antifa is, is the radicalized mindset and the radicalized [00:50:00] mindset allows for an organizational structure to organically develop through random meetings.

I guess then my 2nd question here would be. Do you believe that more of the socialization of the Antifa stuff happens at in person event or in like online message boards and stuff?

Ty: I would say online messaging boards memes. You know, I don't know anyone in my generation. I'm 27. There's like this weird thing to where everyone in my kind of age group, they'll say like an online meme speak.

Everything went downhill when Harambe died. You know, and everyone kind of followed these different memes and thought patterns, and everybody was in coordination. The conservative side was a little more fractured in doing what they would, but as far as, like, liberalism, far left memes, everybody walked in lockstep, and if you didn't walk in lockstep, well, then you're not on my page anymore, you're blocked, you don't get to be a part of the meme, you don't get to be a part of the messaging cycle.

It's kind of like how we had all the goodbye Joe Biden, good guy Joe Biden memes, and then less than a year later, oh, Joe Biden's [00:51:00] running for president. That was one of the memes that would be continually shared and that's really what detracted from black lives matter and the original things with police violence and racial issues is there were like long structure detailed list and they had to mean it down and make it smaller and smaller and smaller to make it digestible for.

Quite crudely, any retard to digest, go out there and act on what they think they want to act on.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, well, and one thing I've noticed, you know, whether it's Black Lives Matter or what Antifa seems to broadly stand for is it really seems much more focused, at least at the ground level, on the things that they are against, and they don't really take specific policies of things that they want to support which leads to there being ideologically a pretty diverse group of people who, you know, Might be antagonistic towards each other.

They actually talked about their goals. How is that managed?

Ty: It isn't So that's one of the things that made me leave in 2020 is as things began to heat up about the may 29th era because for all those that don't know antifa did an insurrection in dc Before january 6 and I wouldn't even [00:52:00] consider january 6 and infirmary an insurrection so much as federal infiltration Like they did with a lot of the black lives matter protesters but I got a fun.

What was the original question? I'm sorry.

Malcolm Collins: I know. I was wondering how they dealt with like the different ideologies, but I want you to go down this. I want to know about May 29th. I don't know anything about May 29th. I was going to look that up and add something about it.

Ty: So I'd like to look up more myself because I was so I got this tattoo on my wrist here, right?

And it's May 31st. I was drunk and I got the date wrong. I think it was actually May 30th or something like that. So Antifa and black lives matter went into DC and I want to say it was like. Eight days, maybe, of prolonged, like, protest, riotous behavior. They stormed the White House, Trump got locked down in the bunker, and while that was happening on the East Coast, over here on the West Coast, people were cheering.

So, in our case, one of the things that they did freaking out because of what was happening in D. C. is, blue cities all across the country began to institute COVID measures in an effort to back off the protesters. So they actually set up a [00:53:00] curfew at our Whole Foods that we have here in Eugene. And they said, if you pass the Whole Foods, you're within the perimeter zone.

And then if you're on the outside, you know, you can't come in. And then the people within the protest zone didn't get the text alerts and then the people outside did. But what that created was actually one of the moments that made me want to walk away from Antifa out of many, but that was a night that I essentially kind of saw a battle going down in the streets of Eugene.

I saw kids get their heads caved in. I saw drones chasing after people, cars, try to run me and my friends over in the streets. We were hopping. over backyards, getting shot at with rubber bullets and tear gas, and it all stemmed from May 29th, but they just want to have us fixated on January 6th, January 6th, January 6th, January 6th.

Well, the feds infiltrated January 6th using people dressed as Antifa members and people on the far right. All the video footage under the sun is out, and really that's something that they did In Portland and in Eugene and in Springfield as well, they practiced the tactics of January six on the black lives crowd and on the Antifa crowd.

And then they moved on to the conservative crowd, because ultimately what they want to [00:54:00] do is get one side or another branded as a terrorist so they can brand both sides as a terrorist. And then they can go after everybody under the sun when in actuality, I think they need to look at Antifa like a gang.

Malcolm Collins: That's really interesting. So, can you, I don't want to push you to, to talk about anything you're uncomfortable talking about, but can you talk a little bit about how you might think of them as a gang?

Ty: Yeah, it's all tribal. It's all colors. So I have this theory and it's a little crude, but I think it's a theory that pans out.

When I explain to people, they're kind of like, oh, but it's the wigger to jihad theory. So it's no secret that we live in a country where the young white men specifically are completely isolated young men in general, but young white men in particular. So when I was growing up,

Malcolm Collins: actually, I should be where I don't know of this generation knows.

The, the wig word, like, I, I think we might have audience members who might have think you just said the N word because I don't think anyone has used it in 10 years. So It's a little dated. Social community that I [00:55:00] mean, when I was in middle school, Or like early middle school. Like I dressed like this, you know, like it was white kids who wore like sagging pants and listened to lots of like rap music and tried to emulate members of like famous members of the black community at the time.

Speaker 8: I got so much juice, you can call me Bruce. Willis. Thank you all my fans.

Malcolm Collins: However, it mostly died out. Like we, we might do an episode on why, like, there's so little black cultural influence in America anymore. Because it is interesting. It used to be like, A really dominant cultural force in America, and it, it, it, I think it mostly died back due to the invention of the concept of cultural appropriation because if you tried to do that today, people would say, well, you're culturally appropriating but it was really, really, really common for a Period for people who are in Gen Z and are like, this wasn't a thing.

Anyway, continue.

Ty: Yeah, well, that's where the theory comes in, right? Is I don't think that cultural appropriation and the calling of it out necessarily stopped it. I [00:56:00] think it shifted. So you had all these young men who either felt disaffected because their family structures were falling apart and there was stuff going on at home and they felt like they needed to take charge by putting on this tough guy attire or, you know, you just had the little geeky white kid that needed a sense of belonging, which I mean, in my case, I'm a juggalo.

So. That was me to a certain extent. I had my chains and my baggy pants and doing all that, hanging out with my buddies, doing drugs and s**t. Like, it's a thing, but I think whenever gender came along that it just, it kind of became the next thing. And I have a video of breaking it down further, but, you know, we kind of go from, Wanting to emulate black, and then we go to metrosexuality, where, you know, visually speaking, a lot of people are wanting to kind of emulate being gay.

And all these different things of what's acceptable, what's permissible, all these doors are being opened. But it's not about actually what's about going on, what's going on in the LGBT community or the African com American community, right? It's the clothes, it's the look, it's the caricature. So you fast forward a couple years, well [00:57:00] kids aren't wiggers anymore, they're all turning trans.

Well these trans kids, it's not just light and fluffy anymore, they're starting to act like they're into the gangster culture, they're into the drugs, they're into the rap, they're becoming increasingly more violent to where it's almost kind of replacing that, but In the sense that this gender ideology works as a religious replacement now that that's not working anymore You notice how a lot of these trans activists and a lot of these angry trans kids are now hopping over to Jihad and hamas support and now they're all wearing the scarves and now they're all It's I feel like it's step by step by step

Malcolm Collins: I haven't seen that so what's interesting is as jihadist mindsets.

They don't signal it In online spaces in a way that conservatives can see as easily. So I'm wondering if you could talk about like, is this, is this like pretty normalized among like the trans activists right now who are in the antifa movement, like the jihadi mindset, the like, that's how you prove you're extra serious.

Ty: So all I can see, a lot of it's coming from external [00:58:00] factors. I'm not really around any Antifa, ex Antifa members anymore. I just met one ex Antifa member, which is a story we can get to if you want, but separate from that, a lot of it's what we're seeing with online. Like you got that little trans non binary girl.

That's like, oh, it doesn't see gender. This is the Quran. You're seeing this kind of explosion online from the LGBT community of weirs for Palestine, you know, Radical insane stuff. You know, I was leaving work the other day. I work at downtown Eugene and it was just all this Project 2025 is a white conservative jihad But then all but next to those same signs was like free palestine and gaza and all this s**t simultaneously It's identity hopping and these kids are so confused that what all of this has done over black lives matter in antifa All the kids that are basically screaming for the death of the jews right now, whether they realize it or not They were groomed for this They were groomed to see through the lens of oppressed versus oppressor.

And they don't realize right now that they are playing holy war and you can't convince these people that [00:59:00] they're acting religious because so many people here in particular, we have generations of kids who not even their parents or their grandparents were religious. So when they start acting religious in themselves, they can't see it.

And if you try to make that comparison, they will flip out on you.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, interesting. Well, it's also interesting to see what causes people to flip out because those are usually like. Evolved social triggers to prevent them from engaging with ideas that might be threatening to their world perspective.

So that also, you know, has me believe that if they could recognize that it is, I mean, that's where the anger is coming from, right? You don't get angry if somebody is making a totally, you know, pointless or not on point accusation. So that's really interesting. And I have, I have noticed that jihad stuff.

I should dig into it more because like I hear about it and it seems to be happening at like their parties and stuff. Okay. I guess here's another question I have. So you mentioned like people get activated by like someone you meet and then they're like, Oh, be at [01:00:00] this event on this time. Do you know the core channels through which they are like activating or reaching people?

Is it typically like. You'd get an email or a phone number like a meme would start or like how would people find out to be at an event?

Ty: I think it's all of the above and it's also convoluted And the thing is social media offers certain protections for certain political groups that want to organize So I think eddie noted a story on in about a year or two to where certain people can post about their organized organizing protests and then others can't Some people can post about you need to go counter this You And they'll have their stuff removed and then the other side will be like, you need to go counter this and then they'll have their stuff removed.

I think social media is tinkering with this in coordination with governments. I mean, we've seen the fascism for ourselves. We've seen the unholy alliance of corporations and government and big business in the Biden administration. While everyone's been blinded because yay, Trump's gone. We don't have to pay attention now.

They've been ramping it up and ramping it up and ramping it up. And a lot of this [01:01:00] too. I. After this week, I can say this solidly. A lot of this is criminal in nature, and it's not that the kids themselves are part of criminal elements. I believe that outside gangs and outside underworld organizations are feeding off of this.

They are sending people into the protest and into these groups, and I believe that they are using Children. I believe that they are using drug meals and The way it was explained to me in some of my investigations this week, when a riot is happening on this side of Portland, and all the police are here, what's going on over here?

We don't, we don't think about that, right? Because all the cameras are over here. All the people are over here.

Malcolm Collins: A lot of this can be contextualized as, as malevolent. And I think that people just aren't really thinking through that. It is only organic that criminal organizations would become involved in this.

If you have a group that can pull police presence to a specific area, and that group regularly consumes drugs, illegal drugs, [01:02:00] that the criminal organizations already need to bring in. So they're naturally going to have connections within those communities and the connections are likely going to be high level within both communities.

So. Let me explain what I mean here. If, for example, I'm an organization that's running, you know, cocaine or ecstasy or something like that and I was going to have somebody who was a distributor, you know, making money distributing that for me who better to be a distributor than a high level member of a social organizing group?

Right? So it's very likely that important individuals within both groups would have a level of overlap. And so. That the groups would use these individuals to put people in specific locations to distract police. And, and here's the thing, if you are running drugs, you know, like you're a cartel, you're going to also be doing human trafficking.

You're going to also be doing like, all of the bad stuff comes together. And so I think that there's sort of two sides of this is, I think that people [01:03:00] may be misunderstanding this as being more Machiavellian. Machiavellian. That it might really be not that you're, it's not like evil people who are doing this, but does the person who ends up leading a Antifa group where they often have parties where there's ecstasy and then becomes a distributor for a local criminal syndicate.

Does that person not care about Antifa's aims? No, they do care about Antifa's aims, but does that person also get maybe Extra money from the criminal organization. Does the criminal organization have the capacity to maybe lay out bricks for them or lay out guns or do other things like that that can make their job easier if they just move the date or let them know so that it overlaps with a And they may not know that this is what's happening that day.

A human trafficking, you know, move big, big movement of supply can go on because that's actually kind of hard to do when you're doing big human trafficking moves because typically they get sort of consolidated and safe houses. And then they need to move them, like, distribute them [01:04:00] to other safe houses.

Bit by bit

Ty: by bit by bit, rather than training them out, essentially.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, so, so doing something like a riot can be very, very useful in terms of, of doing that. And in terms of concentrating a customer base over a period of time. I mean, I bet you if you look at something like CHOP or CHAZ, like, the amount of money that was made by criminal organizations while that was operational must have been astronomical.

Ty: Yeah, like, what was going on in those downtown buildings? They're surrounded by skyscrapers. They took over police. What was going on behind the walls? Because we see people doing whippets and dancing and some people are going in want to make it seem silly. Others want to make it seem dark. Others want to make it seem like there's nothing going on.

But, and the thing is, is a lot of their distributors worth, you're thinking adults, man. Kids, they're using homeless kids. They are using the disaffected youth, the kids that are running away from their families. Kids are easier to use. Kids are easier to manipulate. Kids are easier to get rid of.

Malcolm Collins: Well, and I also think that, that it's likely [01:05:00] that you have what's the word I'm looking for here.

Some of the kids are likely probably not also homeless. The best distributor for these organizations are often rich kids. because they have lots of people with lots of money. They can sell to for, you know, your elitist. And if you're talking about older, like the ideal distributor for them is the person who runs the Antifa network at a local rich college.

And all this

Ty: comes out of the U of O too. Like, a lot of Antifa's top people and a lot of people from there, a lot of it's U of O. I used to live like a block or two up the road. Like, I was at the central starting point for where a lot of the protest meetups would go. And, yeah, it's all college based. So much of it is.

And the schools encourage it and they bow down to them. And I mean, Eugene, so much of it, we're controlled by Chinese interests. I mean, Nike operates out of Eugene and they use labor. It's like, there's so many like foreign connections. The West coast [01:06:00] has become such a completely different country than the rest of America, I'm realizing.

We don't really. We don't operate the same way other people do. It's a new culture.

Microphone (3- ATR2100x-USB Microphone)-4: There was a section here that I had to take out because they got too specific in terms of the organized crime groups that Antifa is working with.

Malcolm Collins: My, my, my intuition would be that it is not intrinsically that Chinese organized crime is disproportionately in, in working with Antifa. It's just that it's probably whoever is the largest and most organized local crime group is going to be the one that's going to naturally work with them.

And most crime groups have an ethnic component. Either either like Latin or black or. Chinese or probably the only one that Antifa isn't going to accidentally start working with is one of the you know, like Nazi or white white criminal groups. But I mean, who knows? One of my things about Antifa is I'm always shocked that they, did they, when you were there, did they do the black shirt thing?

The I did. Oh, so like, do they not know who the black shirts [01:07:00] were historically? Like, so you might not know. I know the brown

Ty: shirts, but they know there's black shirts actually. Brown

Malcolm Collins: shirts were Hitler's group, but he made them after the black shirts, which were Mussolini's group. The very first fascists called their foot soldiers the black shirts.

That is, and then Hitler wanted to copy it, but he didn't want it to be exactly black shirts, so he called them the brown shirts. But yeah, Mussolini's black shirts. Actually their, their famous phrase was something like, f**k around and find out. Okay, I'm gonna look it up. Ah, that's f****n familiar!

Jesus!

Ty: And this, and I'm not laughing because it's funny. It's, I'm so, I'm years disconnected from this, but it's like, I'm still learning, like, the extent to which My behavior took me to the historical things that I was tinkering with that. I had no idea because like we used to write phone numbers on our arms of our contacts for if we got arrested and that was to simulate the Jews.

We would always talk about it. It's like the Holocaust. Here we are with our numbers on our arms. Here I am with my husband's phone number on my arm. And he would look down and the [01:08:00] goal was to like, make you subconsciously feel like you were facing the same historical relevancy situation as them.

Malcolm Collins: By the way, the, the, the term I.

I don't care, which means I don't care or like, I don't give a s, it's probably a better transcript. And that's the embodiment

Ty: of Antifa, if you could sum it up all in one slogan, I don't care, or do what thou will. That's really what it boils down to.

Malcolm Collins: Can you talk about, is there any other psychological tools or techniques you remember that helped you think of other people as Nazis?

Ty: The ISIS comparisons. You have rednecks coming in with trucks and American flags. So a lot of people like to paint the symbolism of, well, look at ISIS over there with their Toyotas and their ISIS flags. So whenever people would come in rallying with the trucks it would make you feel like that was going on.

There's a lot of instances people will just go and they will just Hitler salute just to piss you off because. They know you're a dumb ass and they know you're going to freak out. So they'll go on the other side of the hill and they'll Nazi salute. And that'll get people [01:09:00] enraged. But for me, when I was going out, majority of the time I was drunk or high, I was on narcotics.

I was on alcohol. I was impaired just like most people in Antifa are because a lot of them are so dependent that it's at all times. Like, why are they so confident? It's a chemical induced. Ego that drives their confidence in narcissism. You can't talk, you can't talk sense into an alcoholic. You can't talk sense into a meth head.

You can't convince someone on ketamine that you know more than them. Yeah. Well, and it also makes a lot of sense then. So, so I, I, I absolutely believe you're, you're, you're, you're right there. And it would make sense that they would do that. And this is why, you know, going to a protest to try to defuse them, to try to talk with them in that environment is probably a very bad idea.

Malcolm Collins: And instead focus on, you know, online conversations and stuff like that. That makes a lot of sense

Ty: now talking to conservatives, though, they because I had a jacket, it was black on the outside came on the inside. So I would just flip it out and I kind of play both sides. The the conservatives, they were there to talk.

And that's just [01:10:00] something I want to highlight there to throw all my time there. They're wanting to speak. They're wanting to pray with me. They're wanting to share stories and they're wanting to be like, hey, this is wrong. That helped a lot. So if you do go to these events, you try to talk.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, because I came to the right, you know, I wasn't like originally on the right and the right is like really accepting, like way more than I would have anticipated.

I would say though, it's different depending on the type of right event that you're at. But, but one of the main types of right events, like the type that really likes Trump, they're like, everyone you talk to is just so excited to share their conspiracy theory with you. Yeah, it's fine. And there'll be all sorts of different counteracting conspiracies.

But they're like, Oh dude, I got to bring you in on the conspiracy. And you might think it's interesting how like. Anti government they are, anti authority they are, like, everything's this big effing conspiracy. And that's, and, well, that, and that's the thing too, is like, that's actually how Antifa, at least, I mean, it [01:11:00] started way back in the 30s, but in the modern day, from my perspective going into it, those were the types of people in Antifa that drew me in, like, the Occupy Wall Street people, they're like, hey, do you know what's really going on in the Middle East?

Ty: Do you know what's really going on with UFOs? But, As the federal government came in and all these outside forces came in and infiltrated Antifa, which I do believe they did just like they did the proud boys or any other group, they turned it into a spiritual trap to where they said, you can no longer question, you can no longer explore these things.

And I mean, you look over on the right right now, and all these people that I knew who are super religious, who hated, hated other religions growing up now, they're sitting back like. Huh, that's no different than my religion, or huh, I want to know a little bit more about this. And they're like, kind of actually pulling together in a spiritual collective that I thought the left was gonna do, you know?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, it's been very interesting to see the well, yeah, I mean like, for example, like Andrew Tate's an effing Muslim. Like I always point this out to people. I always forget

Ty: that.

Malcolm Collins: This dude's a Muslim, and he's [01:12:00] like the number one right wing speaker. But yeah, no, it's, it's, it's been really interesting how it's come to resemble, Yeah.

Alright. Well, this has gone longer, so we're gonna have a stupidly long episode on Antifa now, it looks like. But I appreciate your time, and your channel is, again, for people checking

Ty: Yeah, Build Baby Builds with Cyking.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, great. So, named after that Brian Kaplan book, Build, Baby, Build, or a Merlin's Ear thing.

Go check it out, and have an absolutely spectacular day.

Ty: Peace and love, you guys. Appreciate

Malcolm Collins: you

Ty: having me on.

Simone Collins: Anyway, I love you to death. I love you too.

Yikes. There's this one video. I think [01:13:00] it's a clown themed birthday party from your childhood. I don't know if it was yours or Miles, but everyone gets clown face paint that your parents got a person to come and face paint everyone. Maybe it was a friend. Everyone looks horrifying. There's this one girl who does not have any face paint on and who's clearly terrified of clowns.

And there are clowns everywhere at this birthday party. And there's this amazing shot of her face

and someone asks her, do you want us to paint your face? And she's like, No

Malcolm Collins: was I being terrible to her as I was?

Simone Collins: No, this was not Madison. Whoever she was, sorry. Madison,

Malcolm Collins: I think, and it's, these videos show how much parenting matters 'cause none of our kids are like problem kids.

And yet I was just apparently the worst. There

Simone Collins: are many moments in these home videos of your childhood where you [01:14:00] are.

Malcolm Collins: Does it make you feel like you might actually be a pretty good at this mom thing? template you're working from?

Simone Collins: Our kids still. have their moments.

Malcolm Collins: They have the capacity for it, but I've never seen them be actually mean to another kid.

Simone Collins: Yeah, they're but toddlers are toddlers, you know, kids don't like sharing toys that you can't expect perfection from a child. And if you got it, probably something is developmentally wrong with them. You know, perfection as defined by being a perfect gentleman. So yeah.

Malcolm Collins: All right, I'm gonna get started here.