Let's talk about one of the things that the latest next netflix um series has uh has brought up um which argues that churchill was opportunistic in changing uh political parties not once but twice what's your first of all of course in 19 in order to essentially protest about about the protectionism of the Conservative Party. And then once that had changed, he left the Liberal Party in 1924 and became became a Tory. And he's been accused very much of being opportunistic on both sides, doing this solely in order to get into office. What's your thoughts on that?

That was the first thing I coughed over in the Netflix documentary, because it treated both changes of party as an opportunistic move to acquire political power, and actually it didn't work that way at all. In either case, in 1904, he shifted to liberals, was it two years before they actually obtained power? So he sat in opposition for two years there. So that was hardly a move to enhance his political power. In fact, it put him at a permanent disadvantage with his old party, which they never quite forgot, at least some of them. And in 1924, he ran for parliament as a constitutionalist and independent, and still was so when Baldwin offered him the exchequer. And I think he became a conservative after he was appointed to chancellor, is that right? That's

correct.