Welcome to episode 28 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

In this episode, lay Buddhist practitioner and journalist Jo Confino is joined by Zen Buddhist nun Sister Lang Nghiem, of the Plum Village community, to talk about the role of Buddhist psychology in understanding how our mind works. What is the impact of our survival instincts in today’s world? What are the risks of focusing only on ourselves? And are we really responsible for everything?

Sister Chan Lang Nghiem (Adornment with Heroic March) was ordained as a novice nun in 2003, received full ordination as a bhikshuni in 2006, and became a dharma teacher in 2010. Originally from Vietnam, she and her family immigrated to America in 1979. She has lived in Lower Hamlet, France; Deer Park Monastery, California; and Blue Cliff Monastery, New York. With her love of books and of Thay’s teachings, she serves on the advisory board of Parallax Press and is happy to see Thay’s books appear in schools, hospitals, and prisons, on bedside tables, and even in local coffee shops around the world. Though an amateur at sewing, she can replicate practically anything just by looking at the original product. Many of the robes, jackets, hats, cushions, and mats in Plum Village are lovingly sewn with her mindful energy.

In this episode, Sister Lang Nghiem digs deeply into Buddhist psychology and how it can help people lead a better life. She further discusses manas, interbeing, and false boundaries and identities; protective and survival instincts; pleasure seeking and moderation; levels of happiness; avoidance of suffering; individual and collective consciousness; sharing; store and mind consciousness; cultivating peace through consciousness; and new ways to lead peace talks during a war. And: why do we need a self? How that works for us and where it stops helping. 

Jo shares about the art of letting go; separation; work environments and happiness; gratitude practices; and the story of an unlikely friendship.

The episode ends with a short meditation guided by Sister Lang Nghiem.

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Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/ 

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

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List of resources

Sister Chân Lăng Nghiêm (Adornment with Heroic March)
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-lang-nghiem/

Plum Village Community
https://plumvillage.org/#filter=.region-eu 

Deer Park Monastery
https://deerparkmonastery.org/ 

Blue Cliff Monastery
https://www.bluecliffmonastery.org/ 

‘Thich Nhat Hanh on Mind and Consciousness’
https://plumvillage.app/thich-nhat-hanh-on-mind-and-consciousness/ 

Thich Nhat Hanh On…: ‘The Mind as a Gardener’
https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-mind-as-a-gardener/ 

Dharma Talks: ‘Manas Consciousness, Teachings on Buddhist Psychology Retreat, 1997’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/manas-consciousness-thich-nhat-hanh-teachings-on-buddhist-psychology-retreat-1997/ 

Dharma Talks: ‘Interbeing and Store Consciousness’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/interbeing-and-store-consciousness/ 

Dharma Talks: ‘The Power of Understanding – Transformation of Manas’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-power-of-understanding-transformation-of-manas-dharma-talk-by-sr-tue-nghiem-2018-08-02/ 

‘Cultivating Our Blue Sky Nature: Skilful Means for Emotional Healing’
https://www.parallax.org/mindfulnessbell//archive/tag/change+the+peg 

Kristallnacht
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht

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Quotes

“There’s so many different models of how the mind works. Western psychology has one model, and Buddha psychology has one model, but I think we have to remember that they’re all just models. Nothing is absolute.”

“Your thoughts continue in the world.”

“It’s important to recognize what we identify with and, when it is being challenged, the lengths to which we go to protect it, and the expense, the cost of protecting it, to our own happiness or to the happiness of the organisation, our loved ones, the people around us, other nations around us.”

“We always had to protect ourselves from the elements, the dangers. But now, increasingly, we are able to create more and more safe environments in terms of homes, or relationships, alliances and things like that – but that survival instinct, that need to protect and feel that we are being threatened and endangered is still very much alive. So we have to be quite aware of how manas operates, how the survival instinct is operating in us, so that we’re not spending all of our energy just trying to survive and trying to protect ourselves, but to spend more energy trying to recognize what our potential is and what the other person’s potential is as well. Spend more time cultivating the things that we would like to cultivate in ourselves and in the other person. More peace, more happiness, more joy and more compassion, rather than spending so much time trying to protect the boundaries that we feel are ‘ourselves’ and that need protecting.”

“The teaching of interbeing is crucial in helping us to recognize the false boundaries or false identities that we are often stuck with every day. I think we have to train ourselves to see that we’re not separate. My happiness is not separate from your happiness. We can share this cup and I’ll still be happy, for instance. Or there’s so many things that I feel are crucial to my happiness, but I can challenge that a little bit. And what I think is my happiness is not just my own individual happiness; it’s intimately related to your happiness, your safety, your well-being as well.” 

“It’s very important for us to also recognize our deepest desire. And it’s not just to survive, it’s to be happy, and to ‘download’ this message to our stored consciousness. And the stronger awareness we have of our desire, of our deepest desire – our deepest desire is to be happy. Our choices align accordingly.” 

“We can have more than one truth. We can suffer and we can be happy. And if someone’s suffering, we don’t have to just have to offer them more suffering. We can offer them lightness of being. We can offer them joy, but while also being deeply respectful of the suffering.”

“You don’t need to go on a training course, you don’t have to spend money, it doesn’t have to take 10 years of hard work, it’s just a change of perceptions, like putting a different lens in our camera.”

“Trying to avoid suffering actually leads to suffering.”