What happens when ideology takes over church leadership? In this episode, Martha Tatarnic welcomes Mike Cosper, creator of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill and director of podcasts at Christianity Today. Mike explores the dynamics of ideology within church leadership, particularly how ideological thinking can lead to disastrous decision-making. Together, they discuss the influence of secularism and the anxiety surrounding church decline, as well as the allure of charismatic leaders like Mark Driscoll. In a thought-provoking dialogue, they consider the role of populism, the importance of resisting the cult of personality in church leadership, and the practices of worship and storytelling as acts of resistance. Mike also reflects on the reception of his work within the evangelical world and the importance of truth-telling in journalism. He emphasizes the mysterious ways God shows up in broken places, even amidst the church's failings.

Mike Cosper has been creating music, radio shows, and podcasts for more than 20 years. He produced and hosted The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill podcast and is director of podcasts at Christianity Today. He now cohosts a weekly podcast called The Bulletin. Cosper also leads cohorts for church leaders and is the author of four books, including Recapturing the Wonder. He and his family live in Louisville, Kentucky.

Presenting Sponsor:

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Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant