Welcome to episode 38 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

The presenters, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and journalist Jo Confino, are back after a short hiatus with an episode covering their own stories from a summer which has been equally joyful and unsettling. Get ready for an eclectic mix of topics, from the first post-pandemic (and sold out!) summer retreats at Plum Village, weddings, and family reunions, to collective awakening, interbeing, and civilizational collapse; what they’ve learned, and how the practice of mindfulness helped them through the ups and downs.  

Brother Phap Huu talks about taking the pulse of the world via visiting lay practitioners; dharma families; deep sharing; the importance of practice during a special event for his blood family; learning to rest and knowing the limits as an essential practice; dealing with inferiority complexes; and the seed of parenting within all of us. And, yes: walking meditation can have a part in a wedding. 

Jo reflects on civilizational collapse after attending a convention of experts about the polycrisis which combines multiple intersecting emergencies; the accumulation of presence; fast-paced society and its ‘instant results’; recognizing jealousy; stability in dark moments; the historical dimension and the ultimate dimensions; and interbeing, the limits of coming back to our true self, and the potential of coming back to life.

The episode ends with a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu.

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Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/ 

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

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List of resources

Plum Village Retreats
https://plumvillage.org/retreats/visiting-us/ 

Wake Up Humanity 2022
https://plumvillage.org/retreats/info/international-wake-up-retreat-2022/ 

Rains Retreat 2022
https://plumvillage.org/retreats/info/rains-retreat-2022/ 

Bodhicitta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhicitta 

The European Institute of Applied Buddhism (EIAB)
https://plumvillage.org/practice-centre/eiab/ 

Parallax Press
https://www.parallax.org/ 

Letters: ‘New Designs for Monastic Robes’
https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/letters/monastic-fashion/ 

Classes: ‘In the Ultimate Dimension, Every Dharma Is an Unconditioned Dharma’
https://plumvillage.org/library/classes/class-2-in-the-ultimate-dimension-every-dharma-is-an-unconditioned-dharma/ 

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Quotes

“It is such a practice to slow down and to give yourself permission to not look at the emails and to smile at them and say, ‘I don’t have to answer this right away. Who said I have to answer this right away?’ We have created a culture where everything needs to be immediate. Everything needs to be done right here, right now. This is the opposite of living happily in the present moment.” 

“Walking meditation can be applied anywhere. And I really encourage all of us to invest in this practice, because it is formless and nobody needs to know that we are practicing it. But it is there all the time.”

“Now more than ever, we need this inner stability for us to face suffering, or else we are going to lose ourselves, we’re going to panic, we’re going to get overwhelmed. […] Those emotions are not being recognized and cared for. And that is why, for me, this has to go into education; this has to go into the mainstream of well-being. It’s not Buddhism; Buddhism is one of the beautiful manifestations of our diversity, but well-being and a sense of community in taking care of each other’s suffering needs to be highlighted more.”

“Why is it that I can’t drop everything and sit here and be completely happy in this moment? We are not alone in this. I think it’s a symptom of this society that we live in, which is always [about] the opportunity to do more.” 

“Mindfulness also means to recollect, to remind yourself. And the body is always your teacher. That was a new discovery for me, and I am very grateful for that. […] I hope that all of us can tune into our bodies. And that’s why the first foundation of mindfulness is the body, because your body is an indicator of where there’s tension, where you’re carrying weight, suffering, anxiety, stress, etc.” 

“I know for certain that the practice is not a one-time thing; it’s a continuous journey, and it’s never too late or too early to start the practice, because we see the practice as a growing and a living life energy for us.”

“The practice is like the meditations, the slowing down, the listening to the bell, giving yourself permission to stop. When you’re eating, do you cultivate gratitude? All of these little things that we do, the in-between that we think doesn’t have an impact is the bricks that you create for your foundation.”

“Listening to the perspectives of people who’ve looked at past collapses of civilizations, the main constituents have often been inequality and overuse of resources and other elements. And all those conditions are present in our current society. […] Collapse doesn’t happen in a day; it can happen over time in many different forms.” 

“In the ultimate dimension, we know that everything is impermanent, everything arises, everything falls apart. In a few billion years, the Earth will get too close to the sun and explode and all the matter in our Earth will spread out into the universe and may create life elsewhere. So everything comes and goes. But I have this life and so I have this narrow prism of looking out. And I want to protect it; I want everything to be okay. But, in the great arc of history, this era will pass and there’ll be another. [So it is good to] not to be so attached, and [to have] the ability to hold two truths. So I’m deeply attached, in a sense: I want my children; my family; my friends; my community, Plum Village; the world, to do well and to prosper. But I recognize that it’s not in me to control that. And that allows me to commit to seeking change, to give my full self to the change without attachment to a certain way or to the idea that there is a right outcome, because I don’t know what it is.” 

“It’s to see the darkness and the light, how they support each other. Just like our night and our day: our night helps us to sleep, to rest, and our day allows us to have action. So the collapse, the suffering, can be a big motivator for us to change our habits or change our ways.” 

“Interbeing is an insight that can liberate us. And when we say liberate, we always have to ask, ‘What are we liberating [ourselves] from?’ So this particular question is about the self, but the self is also the foundation for a lot of ignorance, because the self is so one-dimensional. It’s ‘Me, me, me, me.’ And that allows us to be so greedy, so angry, so selfish. And a lot of the suffering of today is because of this view, that ‘I am the most important person, my family’s the most important, and anything to do with me is important.’ But we break free from that by seeing the non-me in all of this.”