Jazz as Embodied Art and an Ecology of Practice | Deep Dive: Race, Culture, Jazz, and Democracy #1
Dr. John Vervaeke
The Impression of Tai Chi-Chuan
John Defterios: My experience with jazz has been very much from the outside. I was deeply impressed by them in a way that I never got when I was just listening to the music like off of a record. And so I have some sense from the inside by doing Tai Chi-Chuan and the way it resonates, at least metaphorically with people who produce jazz. So what's your conception or take on the blues? He says there's a very strong connection between blues and jazz.
Dr. John Vervaeke sits down with Greg Thomas, a renowned jazz musician, and musicologist, to delve into the first of a multi-part series. They embark on a journey, exploring the intersections of jazz, blues, leadership, and life. Greg integrates his deep understanding of music into a leadership program, shedding light on how jazz serves as a potent metaphor for leadership and team cohesion in contemporary workspaces. Beyond its rhythmic allure, jazz becomes a powerful tool for understanding democracy, cultural intelligence, and the intricacies of human interactions. They also touch upon the profound philosophical dimensions of blues and its reflection on life's challenges, struggles, and ultimate triumphs. The conversation gracefully traverses through personal anecdotes, profound quotes, and philosophical insights, positioning jazz not just as a musical genre but as a deep existential commentary on life and leadership.
Resources:
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"Billy Boy" from Miles Davis' Milestones album (full version)
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John Vervaeke: Democracy and the Relevance Realization of Distributed Cognition
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Albert Murray: Stomping the Blues | From the Briarpatch File: On Context, Procedure, and American Identity
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The Consolation of Boethius as Poetic Liturgy - Stephen Blackwood
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Finite and Infinite Games - James Carse
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Trading Twelves: The Selected Letters of Ralph Ellison and Albert Murray
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Group Genius: The Creative Power of Collaboration - Keith Sawyer
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The Three Trumpeteers - Nicholas Payton
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Take My Hand, Precious Lord - Thomas Dorsey
Timecodes:
00:00:00 Introduction - Dr. John Vervaeke introduces the episode and announces a collaboration with Greg Thomas, integrating music into a leadership program.
00:01:00 Jazz as Metaphor for Leadership - Greg Thomas speaks about his role at the Jazz Leadership Project and how he uses jazz as a metaphor for workplace leadership. He highlights musical principles guiding effective teamwork and leadership.
00:02:40 Three Key Discussion Topics - Greg outlines three key discussion topics, including jazz as an embodied art and democracy's relationship with E pluribus unum, emphasizing jazz's multi-faceted relevance.
00:06:13 Jazz and Tai Chi Chuan - Dr. Vervaeke shares his experiences with jazz and its parallels to Tai Chi Chuan, bridging Eastern practices and jazz, underscoring their shared themes of flow and embodiment.
00:10:00 Blues Music and Its Relation to Jazz - The topic of blues music and its relation to jazz is introduced. As jazz's precursor, the blues provides historical and emotional context to their conversation.
00:17:05 MLK's View of Jazz - Greg discusses Dr. Martin Luther King's view of jazz as a medium for meaning, love, happiness, and faith.
00:22:00 Role of Blues in Articulating Life Experiences - Dr. Vervaeke delves into the role of blues in articulating life experiences and nurturing wisdom.
00:23:51 Experiencing vs. Playing the Blues - The difference between experiencing the blues and playing them, with emphasis on musical expression as a coping mechanism, sheds light on how art allows individuals to confront life's challenges.
00:28:20 Mythic Foundation of Blues - References to Albert Murray's work and discussion on the mythic foundation of blues music. Tying the blues to myths underscores its timeless, universal appeal.
00:34:40 Philosophical Aspects of Blues - Philosophical aspects of blues music are discussed, comparing them to existentialism, unraveling the blues' ability to reflect on life's questions.
00:39:40 Universal Themes in Music - Dr. Vervaeke draws parallels between the Jewish exile and broader themes of exile, emphasizing the universality of themes within music and human history.
00:43:22 Jazz as Homegrown Wisdom Tradition - The discussion shifts to the four Ps (propositional, procedural, participatory, and perspectival) in the context of jazz. Dr. Vervaeke and Greg Thomas discuss jazz and blues as a homegrown wisdom tradition in the United States.
00:48:46 Global Influence of Black American Music - Greg Thomas highlights the global influence of black American music and his commitment to sharing its lineage with the world.
00:54:26 Jazz Apprenticeship Tradition - Greg Thomas explains the apprentice tradition in jazz and how it transitioned into an educational program.
00:57:15 Jazz's Adaptability - Greg touches on the adaptability of jazz, relating it to Aristotle's lasting wisdom.
01:00:00 Disposition Towards Elegance - Greg quotes from Murray's book, discussing the descendants of American slaves' disposition towards elegance, providing context for understanding the roots of jazz and blues.
01:03:20 Shared Leadership - Introduction of the concept of "Shared leadership," emphasizing mutual accountability and using jazz ensemble dynamics as a metaphor for collaborative teamwork.
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