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Let's talk about 5'9", because I think by your own admission, you're maybe the professional climber who's climbed the most 5'9 of professional climbers.

That's probably true. I bet that is true. I mean, Peter Croft and I are probably nearly tied. Yeah, let's talk about

5'9", because I think it's a funny grade. Today, I'm not sure that if you started climbing in the last even 10 years, you quite have the same appreciation for 5'9", or 5'9", plus as maybe you and I did when we started climbing in the 90s. What do we need to know about this grade?

Yeah, the important thing to know about 5'9", and especially 5'9", plus, is that it used to be the end of the scale. So there's a lot of grade compression at 5'9", and 5'9", plus, because a lot of historic roots through the 50, 60, 70s, old school roots, the scale ended there. So they were like, well, it's as hard as anything we've ever done, so let's call it 5'9", because that's the top of the scale. So now it means that nowadays you can get on a route that's old school 5'9", and you're like, geez Louise, this feels like 5'11", or at least 10'C", or something. I think there's also something to be said that a lot of the old 5'9", are a particular kind of style that are extra hard for somebody learning how to climb in a gym, because a lot of the styles of climbing that were achievable for somebody in low performance climbing shoes using pitons and things like that are basically wide cracks and chimneys and things where it doesn't require standing under tiptoes and really tricky maneuvers. It's more like hard work with your whole body. And that's the type of thing that's really hard to learn in a climbing gym. And so I think that nowadays a lot of things that are sort of 5'9", old school, you're like, that feels so hard, because nobody really has any experience climbing off with cracks. I don't know. I mean, I definitely have had some major experiences in Yosemite where I'm like, oh, it says 5'9", it should be fine. And then you go out there and you're like, this is so full on. You're

like, oh my God.

We didn't really think there was anything harder than 5'9". I mean, numerically, 5'9", was the ceiling.

This is Henry Barber.

And we were back east trying to do these roots in the Schwangunks, Never Never Land, Matinee, Coexistence, Try Again, the first 5'10s there. Man, we just couldn't do them. And then we did these, our own roots out at Crow Hill, first for a sense of Jane and Chita, and when I went out to the valley, I just started walking up these things that were, it was unimaginable. It was ethereal. It was like myths were broken for

me. Still wearing your Swami?

Yeah, I got my Swami right here. Oh

my goodness. That's just a piece of webbing. Yeah,

that's it. That's it. I still got it. Yes, you asked about friends too. I own friends. I got a whole bunch of

them here. Just the fact that you call them friends is a bit of a red flag to

me.